Airbus and Brexit

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:43 pm

Perhaps we could use the Airbus uses to send this lot back and save some cash. Also I believe the threat is to relocate UK production to that bastion of EU quality manufacturing levels worker and human rights.......China. is that near Belgium these days ?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expres ... xpayer/amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:58 pm

Sorry guys, been watching the Serbia-Switzerland match

- the twitter links are to experts who explain the airbus situation far better than I can. The first one is Sky News chief reporter Faial Islam explaining in ten posts what it all means, and the second one is from one explaining that by staying the customs unions, the vast majority of the problems highlighted by Airbus disappear

- Quick/Ringo - great news and fantastic for the town. Might be worth mentioning that though I live thirty miles away I try to keep myself abreast of what is happening. Its actually pretty easy to do with the internet and stuff!

- To you two again as this clearly your thing, the businesses in Burnley that rely on the EU custom union/SM membership for deliveries etc, any idea if they are thinking like Airbus and BMW?

- Quick again, think you need to look at this long term. the big businesses certainly are. If they still are not sure that we will be ok even after a substantial period of time, then I suggest that its something to worry about.

-Damo, love your links btw, keep them up!

- Ringo, big businesses fail in the EU and move within and outside the EU. No one is arguing that doesn't happen, but it does seem weird to actively encourage that to happen by making it harder for them to do business here.

- These are all in the event of a "No Deal". That is very unlikely but there are still people on here who think its a good idea. Again, I respectfully suggest that it most definitely isn't.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:22 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:- These are all in the event of a "No Deal". That is very unlikely but there are still people on here who think its a good idea. Again, I respectfully suggest that it most definitely isn't.

Nobody on here thinks it's a good idea.
Nobody in parliament thinks it's a good idea.
Nobody in the EU thinks it's a good idea.
Is it an option given the EU stance on needing us to fail?
Yes.
Is it a better option than what the unelected government of Europe will want to offer us?
Yes.
Is no deal likely to happen?
No

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:42 pm

Leave voters didn't know that leave meant leaving the single market...
https://youtu.be/pNUQUUllNiM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imagine being that ill informed

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:42 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Sorry guys, been watching the Serbia-Switzerland match

- the twitter links are to experts who explain the airbus situation far better than I can. The first one is Sky News chief reporter Faial Islam explaining in ten posts what it all means, and the second one is from one explaining that by staying the customs unions, the vast majority of the problems highlighted by Airbus disappear

Hi Lancs, I'm not sure why you linked to twitter - it might have made your point more strongly by linking directly to the original documents:

1) Open Europe - OK, I've read it. Seems very like Theresa May's position Jan-2017. However, I forget where Open Europe fits into the politics of brexit.

2) Airbus Risk Assessment - press release, I guess, that "Kicked-off" all today's news and social media debates.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:51 pm

The people thinking that companies won’t walk away from Britain in the event of a no deal Brexit because they need us are the very same ones who said companies would walk away from Britain if Labour put up corporation tax.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:56 pm

The problem was the question in the referendum was to big. There should have been a third\fourth option of staying in the customs union or adopting the Norway option plus say three years of informed information and debate,it was to rushed.
I voted to leave as I always remember Tony Benn commenting about Europe basically saying if you don't like me or my politics you can get rid of me after five years and I had a genuine concern about the rise of fascism in Europe and since the vote it's got worse eg Italy . There politicians will eventually run the EU then what ? fascists telling us how to live and think but we have to adhere because we are part of a bigger thing. No thanks.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:10 pm

Seriously guys and gals, some of you really need to give your heads a wobble. One day you will criticise the excesses of capitalism, the next you will miss those same excesses (big companies playing political games after state handouts after extensive lobbying).

Jack Lopresti explains this far better than I can. He is, after all, the local Airbus MP.

https://www.jacklopresti.com/news/my-st ... ing-airbus

Remainers - you are being played. Take back control was apt in far more ways than one. Let’s stop this EU-wide big business cronyism and dodgy lobbying which is hammering smaller businesses around Europe. Let’s not just believe things because we WANT them to be true.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:13 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Let’s not just believe things because we WANT them to be true.

If only people voting leave ha heeded this advice we wouldn’t be in this mess!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:25 pm

Paul, with the greatest respect I wouldn't be better linking the original documents

I'm better linking the documents plus expert commentary from people who know more about this than me.

Crosspool, sure there is merit to your point, but again there is merit to mine as well. To dismiss as scaremongering is just silly. It is a real and credible threat to a no deal scenario.

Damo, plenty of people want a "No Deal", and though there is a clear majority who want a deal, do not underestimate the inability of the current government to sort this out.

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:27 pm

Hi bfcjg. I fully agree with your comment below.

"The problem was the question in the referendum was to big. There should have been a third\fourth option of staying in the customs union or adopting the Norway option plus say three years of informed information and debate,it was to rushed."

The EU is far (very far) from being perfect. But then so are governments. So is the UK's voting system. So is the UN.

The referendum was botched and nobody really knows where the UK is heading.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:29 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Seriously guys and gals, some of you really need to give your heads a wobble. One day you will criticise the excesses of capitalism, the next you will miss those same excesses (big companies playing political games after state handouts after extensive lobbying).

Jack Lopresti explains this far better than I can. He is, after all, the local Airbus MP.

https://www.jacklopresti.com/news/my-st ... ing-airbus

Remainers - you are being played. Take back control was apt in far more ways than one. Let’s stop this EU-wide big business cronyism and dodgy lobbying which is hammering smaller businesses around Europe. Let’s not just believe things because we WANT them to be true.

As an ardent Brexiteer he was hardly going to say anything to the contrary, was he?

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cheers for the response Ringo, starting, Benny

- So we've learnt that car plants can close down, and that unprofitable steel plants can close down. So there is plenty of precedent for major industrial sites to shut down/relocate.

- When faced with uncomfortable truths, the default position isn't to argue, its to come out with soundbites that don't help save British jobs and industry (and don't do your argument any favours)

Everything, as always, is in a state of flux and, as such, you can’t blame anything on anything. Diesel falls into disrepute and CO2 levels rise. Connected, who knows? Jobs lost, Brexit, who knows? The ups and downs of Brexit will only become apparent years down the line but, in the meantime, it is purely the every day fluctuations of life that affect what we read in the papers. I voted leave but I accept I won’t know if my opinion is correct until years down the line and neither with anyone of an opposite disposition. I’m pretty sure I’ll be proved right but I’m sure every remainer thinks the same too. Life is far too f*cking short to lose sleep over this sh!t. Have a beer and chill out.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:01 pm

You’re right Spijed. The MP is an ardent Brexiteer. He has worked in several businesses (estate agent, family ice cream business etc) and was a commando in Helmand Province. He’s lived a bit (like many Brexiteers) and probably isn’t naive. He also presumably cares deeply for the welfare of his constituents, many being workers in the Airbus factory.

I have no idea whether to trust his judgement or not, but his statement rings true. It is playing political games to gain an advantage, which a huge company can do.

Lancaster is right of course that we should try to avoid a no deal. It will obviously be worse for these companies. But we cannot cave in to bullying, which this is (yet again).

The thing I object to though is how the whole media more or less (certainly the TV media) celebrate this Airbus news whilst not acknowledging the very real two sides to the argument that the MP expresses. I am sat here as I write listening to the 11pm news do just that, not mentioning the MP once. It is playing Remainers like a banjo. Oh, and it will work.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:15 pm

It's sad that Brexiteers so often imply that Remainers celebrate when it is exposed, over and over, just how moronic a decision we made two years ago.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:44 am

BennyD wrote:The ups and downs of Brexit will only become apparent years down the line but, in the meantime, it is purely the every day fluctuations of life that affect what we read in the papers. I voted leave but I accept I won’t know if my opinion is correct until years down the line and neither with anyone of an opposite disposition.

This might be true if we manage to get a deal of sorts, but if we end up without a deal, then I think we'll find out soon enough.
The Labour Party should be making contingencies for this now. "No deal" will most likely result in a Gen Election.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:11 am

Nice of the EU to spend the last 50 years raping our IP, consolidating our companies and markets after raping british ones (airspace, motors, ANY manufacturing, satellites, defence, space etc etc etc) and turning then into a "EU companies" before ******* us off after we decide that we don't want to be part of the federal super-state after we never even signed up for in the first place.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:44 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Sorry guys, been watching the Serbia-Switzerland match

- the twitter links are to experts who explain the airbus situation far better than I can. The first one is Sky News chief reporter Faial Islam explaining in ten posts what it all means, and the second one is from one explaining that by staying the customs unions, the vast majority of the problems highlighted by Airbus disappear

- Quick/Ringo - great news and fantastic for the town. Might be worth mentioning that though I live thirty miles away I try to keep myself abreast of what is happening. Its actually pretty easy to do with the internet and stuff!

- To you two again as this clearly your thing, the businesses in Burnley that rely on the EU custom union/SM membership for deliveries etc, any idea if they are thinking like Airbus and BMW?

- Quick again, think you need to look at this long term. the big businesses certainly are. If they still are not sure that we will be ok even after a substantial period of time, then I suggest that its something to worry about.

-Damo, love your links btw, keep them up!

- Ringo, big businesses fail in the EU and move within and outside the EU. No one is arguing that doesn't happen, but it does seem weird to actively encourage that to happen by making it harder for them to do business here.

- These are all in the event of a "No Deal". That is very unlikely but there are still people on here who think its a good idea. Again, I respectfully suggest that it most definitely isn't.

Faisal Islam is not an expert, he's a remoaner journalist who only tweets so called bad brexit news.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:16 am

We start regulating our production abroad and get this big old engine fired up again. Lets fill all the empty shell buildings, ship yards and steel works with thriving production and turn this warehouse back into a powerhouse.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:24 am

BennyD wrote:Everything, as always, is in a state of flux and, as such, you can’t blame anything on anything. Diesel falls into disrepute and CO2 levels rise. Connected, who knows? Jobs lost, Brexit, who knows?

Erm, everybody knows BennyD. Everybody who can read, at least. If Airbus disinvest and move production out of the UK it will absolutely be because of Brexit. They've hinted as much on several occasions, and they openly admitted it yesterday. If you want to pretend the inevitable jobs losses are due to some separate economic phenomenon, that's up to you. But you're living in cuckoo land.

BennyD wrote:The ups and downs of Brexit will only become apparent years down the line but, in the meantime, it is purely the every day fluctuations of life that affect what we read in the papers. I voted leave but I accept I won’t know if my opinion is correct until years down the line and neither with anyone of an opposite disposition.

Again, you're trying to put any instability and negative news down to 'every day fluctuations', when these are actually the direct consequences of the UK leaving the EU. Its not just an every day fluctuation, its a self made disaster in waiting. This is happening now. How long will we have to wait for the so called positives of Brexit? Are there any?

BennyD wrote:I’m pretty sure I’ll be proved right but I’m sure every remainer thinks the same too. Life is far too f*cking short to lose sleep over this sh!t. Have a beer and chill out.

You clearly sound like a person who won't be affected by Brexit whatever happens. Congratulations. Maybe when thousands of people lose their livelihoods because of Brexit, you can tell them not to lose sleep over it, have a beer and chill out. I'm sure they'll find that a great comfort.

With respect, it's people like yourself, insulated from many of the potential down sides of Brexit, who are the most dangerous. You can fully support the government in their no deal suicide mission knowing that you will be ok whatever happens. Most people are not in that position, and the consequences of the UK walking away without a deal will be disastrous for them.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:28 am

starting_11 wrote:They make more than Typoons

And Rolls Royce would be forced to stop under the same rules, not that they'd be chosing to.

DUh!

They do, hence why I asked the question. What service contracts do you think they have in EU nations that would cripple their armed forces?

As for RR. The engines would just be serviced by a different company. RR only have a 10% market share anyway, so chances people are losing sleep over it are slim.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:32 am

BleedingClaret wrote:Hold on so Airbus have 25 sites in the UK equipped to build parts of airplanes and employ 14,000 staff to er build parts of planes.
If they should go there’ll be 25 sites equipped to build plane parts and 14000 trained staff that worked in those 25 sites.
So set up in competition to airbus who will be acquiring 25 new sites in Europe and acquiring and training 14,000 staff.
Simples

Do you know how long it takes to design and manufacture a commercial airliner to bring to market?

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:39 am

Lancasterclaret wrote: This is genuinely serious now. How many companies in Burnley are thinking the same as Airbus?

Safran have indicated that they would gradually move operations out of the UK in the case of a hard Brexit.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-brita ... KKCN1GI1Y5

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:44 am

Bizarre. Ringo and Quick never mentioned that.

Strange

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:55 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Bizarre. Ringo and Quick never mentioned that.

Strange

Maybe I didn't know about it?

I don't claim to know everything about everything. I just comment on what I see with my own eyes.

Quite a few people trying to stop developments round here there's that many.

Google Exertis and all the fuss as they're trying to double the size of their factory.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:58 am

Damo wrote:Leave voters didn't know that leave meant leaving the single market...
https://youtu.be/pNUQUUllNiM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imagine being that ill informed

Brilliant post Damo!

And the ******** clown still has the neck to argue against what he himself actually said himself!

There's several on here who obviously take inspiration from him!

Great find fella!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:58 am

Which is great news (as I said!) but my question was about how many companies in Burnley are thinking along the same lines of BMW/Airbus.

I'm probably doing you a disservice so I'm sorry for that, but anyone following these sort of debates closely will know by now that Ringo just ignores anything that might nullify his arguments.

Which is very annoying when you actually want to hear about stuff like this.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:00 am

Off on a bike ride Ringo so if you want a row you'll have to wait!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:10 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Bizarre. Ringo and Quick never mentioned that.

Strange

Morning swerve meister,

And anybody who follows knows full well that you don't like to answer awkward questions do you!

Michelin a French company, closed its doors for the last time, of its Bankcroft road plant in Burnley in April 2002 with the loss of around 500 highly paid manufacturing jobs. This happened while the UK was IN the UK. The reason given was that the company wanted to concentrate it's operations in other parts of their operation. Where were you?

So now a French company on the very same Bankcroft road announces it MAY do the same. And the likes of you are seizing upon it with glee!! Trying to use it to give it the big "I told you so"

I've got a couple of good mates that work at Safran, I've addressed your point. So your accusation that I ignore anything that nullifys my argument, is knocked out of the park.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:21 am

Lancasterclaret wrote: there is plenty of precedent for major industrial sites to shut down/relocate.

- When faced with uncomfortable truths I pretend to watch the footy or reckon I'm off on my bike

"There's plenty of precedent" lancs. Your very own Papalesque words. Words describing ACTUAL closures. Your feigning outrage at POTENTIAL closures, by companies who threatened the same before the referendum. In the case of Airbus, after the vote, announced, "our future is in the UK"

So i ask you. Why the fuss now?

Corby steel was shut down with the loss of 10000 jobs in an area that could ill afford to lose them. Couldn't be saved due to EU rules on state intervention.

Where were you then Lancaster Claret, jumping up and down?

Where were you?

Happy Independence Day BTW.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:37 am

Damo wrote:Leave voters didn't know that leave meant leaving the single market...
https://youtu.be/pNUQUUllNiM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imagine being that ill informed

So I’m confused now. Was ‘Project Fear’ (I.e. everything the Remain side said) a pack of lies designed to make people vote Remain or an accurate prediction of what might happen? You seem to want to pick and choose!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:43 am

martin_p wrote:So I’m confused now. Was ‘Project Fear’ (I.e. everything the Remain side said) a pack of lies designed to make people vote Remain or an accurate prediction of what might happen? You seem to want to pick and choose!

He also seems to think that people who voted Leave were listening to Remain supporters, but not listening to the Leave campaigners who were saying that leaving the EU doesn't mean leaving the single market.

As usual he's full of **** and making really bad arguments.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:27 am

martin_p wrote:So I’m confused now. Was ‘Project Fear’ (I.e. everything the Remain side said) a pack of lies designed to make people vote Remain or an accurate prediction of what might happen? You seem to want to pick and choose!

I'm also confused. The quoted comment doesn't mention project fear (the overnight recession etc) it was in reference to remain supporters constantly saying leave voters were never told leave meant leaving the single market

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:28 am

Damo wrote:I'm also confused. The quoted comment doesn't mention project fear (the overnight recession etc) it was in reference to remain supporters constantly saying leave voters were never told leave meant leaving the single market

The overnight recession? Was that a term that was actually used often or have you just made it up because you don't know how a recession is defined?

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:31 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:He also seems to think that people who voted Leave were listening to Remain supporters, but not listening to the Leave campaigners who were saying that leaving the EU doesn't mean leaving the single market.

As usual he's full of **** and making really bad arguments.

There was literally no leave supporters more prominent than Gove and Johnson, who both quite clearly stated in that video what leave meant

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:34 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:The overnight recession? Was that a term that was actually used often or have you just made it up because you don't know how a recession is defined?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36355564" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:44 am

On steel, wasn't one of the issues that the UK was one of the countries that blocked the EU plan to increase tariffs on Chinese steel.

On companies leaving post Brexit, it's not really a new thing. In terms of financial services millions are being spent on viability studies on where to go if passporting rights aren't carried over. The inability of the UK government to even decide on a direction apart from some contradictory red lines is leaving many frustrated and amongst a number I've talked to the attitude that it may be worth relocating just to get some certainty is getting stronger.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:53 am

Would it be so bad if foreign companies left this country?

They're here to make money and take it out of here back to their homeland. By leaving they create a gap in the market for a UK based firm to start up and keep the money here.

They wouldn't be here in the first place if they weren't making money.

P.S All the industry's/firms threatening to leave are the one's that take great subsidies from our Government at the moment. Coincidence?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:32 am

Damo wrote:I'm also confused. The quoted comment doesn't mention project fear (the overnight recession etc) it was in reference to remain supporters constantly saying leave voters were never told leave meant leaving the single market

No it doesn’t. But you seem to pick and choose what was part of ‘Project Fear’. Is it only the things you thought showed negative aspects of leave? Let’s be clear, Cameron, Osbourne, Clegg et al were mentioning leaving the single market as a response to the Leave campaigners who were claiming we could leave the EU and remain in it.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:32 am

deanothedino wrote:Do you know how long it takes to design and manufacture a commercial airliner to bring to market?

How hard can it be really

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:35 am

Damo wrote:There was literally no leave supporters more prominent than Gove and Johnson, who both quite clearly stated in that video what leave meant

You mean the same Boris Johnson who frequently stated that we should remain in the Customs Union and Single Market??

http://uk.businessinsider.com/boris-joh ... ion-2018-1

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:00 pm

An interesting map of where salaries from Airbus go

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:07 pm

I’m concerned that our standing in the world and our economy will be reduced to such an extent that we will end up looking like Greece in the event of a ‘No Deal’.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:24 pm

mikeS wrote:I’m concerned that our standing in the world and our economy will be reduced to such an extent that we will end up looking like Greece in the event of a ‘No Deal’.

Then you my friend are the problem. Brexit is like the Peter Pan character Tinkerbell. If you believe in it strongly enough it will happen but if it fails it will because of all those remoaners and non believers like yourself.

Blind faith is the absolute key so come everybody if we believe hard enough we will all be ok

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:00 pm

I don’t mind taking a leap of faith. I’ll just let all the Brexiteers leap first and take it from there.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:46 pm

This man doesn't have an end-game beyond his own political ambitions.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... -concerns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Boris Johnson was embroiled in a diplomatic row with Brussels on Friday night after he was accused of using a four-letter word to dismiss an ambassador’s question about the post-Brexit needs of British business.

EU diplomats have claimed that during a Foreign Office reception to celebrate the Queen’s birthday last week, the Foreign Secretary was asked about the fears of some business leaders over Brexit and replied: “f*** business.”

He was also overheard talking about Theresa May’s moves towards a softer Brexit and saying: “We will fight it and we will win.” Mr Johnson was in conversation with Belgium’s ambassador to the EU Rudolf Huygelen at the event in Lancaster House, London, when he was overheard by two diplomatic sources making the comments.

Mr Johnson, the UK’s chief diplomat, admitted that Britain was more divided now than it had been since the English Civil War, after a speech in which he rhapsodised over the “wonderful project called Brexit”, it is claimed.

Sources close to Mr Johnson disputed whether he used the bad language alleged, while insisting that he had been attacking business lobbyists such as the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) which wanted a policy that suited their vested interests rather than ordinary working people.

News of the Foreign Secretary’s alleged outburst was greeted with disbelief and shock in Brussels.

One EU-27 diplomat told The Telegraph: “It is shocking for him declare he would take the battle directly to Theresa May and speaking so openly about it. He wasn’t hiding his intentions at all. “I was shocked by how crude and crass he was, as if he didn’t care for the consequences and especially not the economic consequences of Brexit.”

An EU diplomat from another country said, “The Conservatives are meant to be the party of business but now it looks like the European Commission is the best friend of British business.”

Asked about the allegations, a third diplomat from a country traditionally friendly to Britain simply said wearily: “Jesus Christ.”

Last night a source close to Mr Johnson said: “No-one has done more to back hard-working British businesses than Boris. “He was attacking lobbyists like the EU-funded CBI who are more interested in doing what’s right for big multinational corporations instead of helping ordinary working Brits.”

On Friday, plane manufacturer Airbus warned it could leave Britain if there was a no deal Brexit.

Mr Johnson’s comments about the Prime Minister and his open discussion of Cabinet divisions in front of ambassadors and embassy officials comes after a leaked recording earlier this month in which Mr Johnson suggested Donald Trump might do a better job of the Brexit negotiations.

In the leaked recording of his speech to a Conservative group a fortnight ago, Mr Johnson referred to The Treasury as “the heart of Remain”.

The EU is increasingly frustrated with Cabinet squabbles over Brexit, which it claims has slowed the pace of negotiations. “How can we do a deal when we don’t even know who’s running this?,” one Brussels diplomat said.

Next week, EU leaders will meet in Brussels for a European Council summit where they are expected to condemn the lack of “substantial progress” made by Britain in putting forward a solution to prevent the return of a hard border in Ireland after Brexit.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:53 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Erm, everybody knows BennyD. Everybody who can read, at least. If Airbus disinvest and move production out of the UK it will absolutely be because of Brexit. They've hinted as much on several occasions, and they openly admitted it yesterday. If you want to pretend the inevitable jobs losses are due to some separate economic phenomenon, that's up to you. But you're living in cuckoo land.

Again, you're trying to put any instability and negative news down to 'every day fluctuations', when these are actually the direct consequences of the UK leaving the EU. Its not just an every day fluctuation, its a self made disaster in waiting. This is happening now. How long will we have to wait for the so called positives of Brexit? Are there any?

You clearly sound like a person who won't be affected by Brexit whatever happens. Congratulations. Maybe when thousands of people lose their livelihoods because of Brexit, you can tell them not to lose sleep over it, have a beer and chill out. I'm sure they'll find that a great comfort.

With respect, it's people like yourself, insulated from many of the potential down sides of Brexit, who are the most dangerous. You can fully support the government in their no deal suicide mission knowing that you will be ok whatever happens. Most people are not in that position, and the consequences of the UK walking away without a deal will be disastrous for them.

Open your eyes; Airbus are a French company who are being used as a political weapon by the French government. Also, whatever happens, they won’t be able to pull out of the UK as they will have to fund the move, which they can’t afford to do, and then try and find thousands of highly qualified engineers without disrupting production. Good luck with that. For many of the Brexiteers, merely getting rid of the Euro elite is worth any downside that Brexit may occasion.

How can such fluctuations be as a direct result of leaving the EU? We haven’t left yet so, until we do, they are everyday fluctuations. There may be more to come but we won’t know until we do leave.

There will be a deal, because it’s in everybody’s interest to have one. At the moment Barmier is being the truculent pain in the a55 that typifies the Euro elite but their stance will mellow with time. They will still want to trade with us as we will with them and even the Federalists will realise that.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:59 pm

Two years since the referendum and still no nearer to knowing what the population voted for... what a mess

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:38 pm

We may,we might,we could,it's possible........political statement more project EU funded fear...

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:08 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:We may,we might,we could,it's possible........political statement more project EU funded fear..

We may,we might,we could,it's possible...yes that’s about all we’ve had for 2 years