Tory Party in Disarray

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
UpTheBeehole
Posts: 5069
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:14 pm
Been Liked: 1157 times
Has Liked: 496 times

Tory Party in Disarray

Post by UpTheBeehole » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:42 am

Is Tory discipline on the verge of breaking down?

After their autumn conference the Tories had the blues.

The spectacle of the prime minister's speech, that was as fun for those watching as having your eyelashes pulled out one by one, has been followed by many bumpy months, with muddling through being the modus operandi.

The governing party certainly isn't happy, but Number 10 have managed to keep going, many Conservatives' frankly dumbfounded but frankly grateful that they are level-ish in the polls, even if those numbers sometimes slip behind.

But as the mercury has hit the top of the gauge in the last couple of days, are the Conservatives in danger of tipping into serious summer madness?

The Brexit fandango is reaching (another) climax. Don't expect too much from this week's Brussels summit, although it's quite possible the EU may be rather, shall we say, punchy, about the need for Britain to get on with it. But the weeks that follow will matter very much.

The prime minister is due to see other European leaders again, either one on one in London, or abroad at the start of the week. Then, a week on Friday, she is summoning her whole Cabinet for a spot of country air.

This meeting is not just to enjoy the bounty of the Home Counties, but (finally, again) to try to forge a consensus among the factions so that the poor old Brexit negotiators can know what on earth it is the government really wants them to fight for.

The outline of this is to be expected in a Brexit White Paper, likely on 11 July, which will provide in a detailed way in black and white, the framework for Britain's relationship with the rest of the EU for decades to come.

It is not just about finally concluding the messy episode that readers of this blog are very well used to, getting the cabinet to agree what form of customs arrangements are likely to take after Brexit.

For all of the reasons we've discussed many times here this will not be easy. Customs arrangements sketch out only one of the dividing lines on a huge canvas of political disagreements.

Jokes abound in SW1 already about the kind of vague compromise that will be reached on that - will it be a 'max-partnership', 'customs-fac' or 'partnership arrangement'.

But what the government wants to do is come up with a more detailed version of the Prime Minister's Mansion House speech back in March where she gave her desired broad, very broad approach.

EU diplomats say the White Paper simply has to be credible in Brussels, or else they will lose even more faith in the British ability to do a deal.

But at home, it has to at least temporarily, get buy-in from a majority of members of the Cabinet, and at least, not be immediately trashed by the different wings of the Tory party.

Surely they'll all want the same thing, you may cry. They are in the same party after all. Just in case you need a little reminder, only a few days ago the Trade Secretary, Liam Fox, told us it would be unacceptable to stay in the single market for goods when we leave the EU.

This afternoon the Business Secretary, Greg Clark, almost went the full Norway. If you read this blog often enough I won't patronise you by going back through that again - if you don't there is an explanation here.

But the run-up to that major event is becoming an ever more stroppy, ever more surreal political environment.

One minister told me it's like a bad 45 year marriage: "We've stayed together for the sake of the kids, given birth to Brexit which is now ready to leave home and we're fighting now over who gets what."

A former senior minister said, "it's just broken", suggesting that the Cabinet does not understand how bad the situation really is. "They are completely out of touch." they said, blaming the prime minister's desire to keep everyone on side on Brexit for the boiling tensions,

"Everyone leaves the room thinking she has agreed with them. It's corrosive. You can argue it out to come to a position but she just won't."

In the next ten days there will be much, much more to say about the success or lack thereof of the next phase of the Brexit saga. If nothing else, if the heat wave lasts until then, gathered hacks will be able to look forward to sunbathing rather than freezing at the end of Chequers very, very long gravel drive - mad dogs and Englishmen and all that.

While it is a messy picture though, there is not that much that's surprising about the backdrop. Brexit has been driving rival Tory factions crazy for many, many months. It's extremely difficult to corral them in a minority government. Different ministers sounding off about the misperceptions of their opposing gangs don't even always lead hacks to raise a pencil.

But that instability has fuelled an atmosphere where party discipline seems on the point of breaking down, even though with the whips in overdrive, government is achieving its most important objective of getting its business through Parliament.

Yet the Cabinet seems sometimes to be creating the appearance of chaos where there need not be any. For some of his colleagues, the Foreign Secretary's (yes, him) latest exploits have gone way past testing the patience of saints. What might have been defended as that phrase beloved by some, "cheeky bantz' has become reputation-ruining stuff.

This does not, repeat, does not, mean that it is all totally terminal for him. He is still a big figure in the party, still has a huge job in the government, and his supporters point to his unrivalled ability to get noticed, and to communicate plainly. There are only a tiny handful of politicians known by their first name in the country, who people cross the road to meet.

He is one of them, even if these days as many of those who want a selfie might want to say something rude too. But in this fractious summer, Mr Johnson is certainly not the only one pushing the rules.

Take the new-ish Defence Secretary. Keen, as occupants of that post are, to secure more funding for his department, Gavin Williamson is fighting hard to get more out of the Treasury coffers.

He has an eager mini-army of defence stalwarts on the backbenches who he knows will be onside. No one ever fell foul either of the Tory membership by going soft on defence.

But some of his colleagues are derisory about how brazen he has been. One of them scornfully told me, "he's a child", and some elements of Number 10 are losing patience too.

Then there's Liz Truss who tonight has poked fun at her colleague Michael Gove, mocking his conversion to all things environmental, making a speech that essentially ridicules some of the Tories' own recent policies.

More seriously, Ms Truss, the number two at the Treasury, had a pop at Mr Williamson and the idea of raising taxes, when a major move on the NHS by the PM last week promised just that.

In less than seven days there have been not just embarrassments and noises off, but more importantly very public statements of direction and ethos that seem to be contradictory.

What is the public to make of it if one day one minister says it is well worth raising taxes to pay for the public services so many voters care about, if the next, a different minister says that is not their party's way?

One former minister says "what Liz and the Ministry of Defence is calling for is incompatible".

What is business - whether they were told to **** off or not - supposed to make of a party which has traditionally stood alongside them, but whose ministers swing from saying they listen, to saying it's inappropriate for them to speak out.

What is the rest of the Tory party, let alone the EU, to make of a party whose top brass seem to be enjoying disagreeing so much?

Fingers point very quickly to the reason why this is happening. The prime minister has survived in office by (here supporters would say skilfully) keeping both sides of a divided party on board.

But her critics say that leads to a vacuum which, in tweets tonight commentator Tim Montgomerie says, nature, and politics abhor. Define or be defined. Lead, or be led. If she won't try to make her arguments publicly, let alone privately, others will fill the silence.

And in the last couple of weeks it does seem that something has changed. It is not so much that we didn't know there was Tory disagreement, it is that some of the most senior figures seem to have stopped even trying to pretend that they agree.

Perhaps this is a more honest way of doing politics and to be admired. Perhaps it is old fashioned to posit that it matters.

But in our current system, governments need to be able to agree amongst themselves in order to decide what they want to do. And don't forget this isn't just pantomime, what they actually decide can affect all our lives.

In ten days the prime minister is going to try to get her Cabinet to agree what they want from Brexit.

Calm may have returned by then, a cool atmosphere of peace and harmony could have replaced all the fever.

Politics moves so fast now that in a couple of weeks this blog might seem like something from another century. But Westminster, as well as the rest of the country, is feeling the heat.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44623620

The Titanic is heading for the iceberg, and we've got Coco the Clown at the helm

Woodleyclaret
Posts: 8507
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1843 times
Has Liked: 2186 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Woodleyclaret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:46 am

Great isnt it ?.We just need to dump Corbyn for Labour to have a chance to of winning the next election

Damo
Posts: 4570
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:04 pm
Been Liked: 1798 times
Has Liked: 2776 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Damo » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:53 am

I guessed the OP.
Do I win £5?

hampsteadclaret
Posts: 3235
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:25 am
Been Liked: 1110 times
Has Liked: 802 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by hampsteadclaret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:58 am

This Tory Party nonsense has been coming for months and months, entirely predictable wasn’t it. She knew it as well and has been playing for time. She has a useless dreary Chancellor, that tool Boris doing his buffoon bollux every day and I knew that Williamson bloke was trouble the second I spotted him... then of course the B word.
- the economy is not at all strong either.

A pity that Labour will be unable to take advantage of the carnage, that is not too far away.

Ashingtonclaret46
Posts: 3891
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:15 am
Been Liked: 1862 times
Has Liked: 2716 times
Location: Ashington, Northumberland

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:05 pm

You know what they say about the elephants fighting ---nothing changes under any government.
Leadership is a thing of the past along with common sense and a politician's concern about the UK.

KateR
Posts: 4266
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1050 times
Has Liked: 6500 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by KateR » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:06 pm

need to dump a lot more than Corbyn to win lol.

would Labour or any party for that matter want to take on the poison chalice of government in the next 18 months, I doubt it, not just yet. Indeed would the UK population want to see a change at the head of government and the negotiations at this time, I doubt it but you never know. Am sure the remainers would support a change but only if the manifesto was built on stopping/reversing Brexit or having a second referendum, maybe LibDem/SNP would band together on that platform.

Boris was very smart in my opinion pulling out of the race to be PM recognizing the disaster to come which no one could have managed in keeping the country happy, he will wait for an opportune moment but not before Brexit is a done deal and someone can be blamed for dealing with what is finally agreed.

hampsteadclaret
Posts: 3235
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:25 am
Been Liked: 1110 times
Has Liked: 802 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by hampsteadclaret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:27 pm

You must not have spotted that this thread was about the Tory Party.
- put your glasses on.. :o .

‘Boris was smart in dropping out of the race to be PM...’ ...don’t make me laugh.. :D it’s the only thing he’s ever been interested in, and he will never give up on that one.

Rowls
Posts: 14648
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 pm
Been Liked: 5644 times
Has Liked: 5864 times
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Rowls » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:43 pm

Ha ha Disarray

Ha ha Datarray

Ha ha Disarray

My oh my

Just a bit o' magic

Just a bit o' magic

Just a bit o' magic

My oh my

hampsteadclaret
Posts: 3235
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:25 am
Been Liked: 1110 times
Has Liked: 802 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by hampsteadclaret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:47 pm

I thought you were supposed to serve drinks to people Rowls, not pouring them all down your own throat..

How is your boss supposed to make a decent level of profit ?
Last edited by hampsteadclaret on Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rowls
Posts: 14648
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 pm
Been Liked: 5644 times
Has Liked: 5864 times
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Rowls » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:49 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:I thought you were supposed to serve drinks to people Rowlands, not pouring them all down your own throat..

How is your boss supposed to make a decent level of profit?
Your far too ancient my Hampered friend. ;)

Only those who grew up in the 80s (and were BBC kids) will understand.

Rowls
Posts: 14648
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 pm
Been Liked: 5644 times
Has Liked: 5864 times
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Rowls » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:50 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnuMAL2YKgI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hampsteadclaret
Posts: 3235
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:25 am
Been Liked: 1110 times
Has Liked: 802 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by hampsteadclaret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:18 pm

I bet I wasn’t the only one that didn’t get it Rowls.

I get it now, tho’ your Wizbit link featuring Paul Daniels was truly under-whelming...shytt in fact.
- I hope you’re doing a better job entertaining your French clientele, and not letting the side down.

CrosspoolClarets
Posts: 6747
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
Been Liked: 1973 times
Has Liked: 504 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:47 pm

The Tories are generally pro free markets and thus eurosceptic, but are also financially responsible and are wary of upsetting huge business lobbyists that they depend on for their party funds.

In facing having to deliver a Brexit that wasn’t primarily driven by the economy, they are thus split down the middle of all their general instincts. They will upset big business if they leave and may temporarily worsen the economy (even if smaller businesses eventually plug those gaps, which I believe to be the true force behind our economy). They will upset their free market and eurosceptic membership if they don’t fully leave, plus the 52% of the population who would feel their free vote has just become worthless. The latter thus isn’t an option as they would be finished for a generation.

They therefore have my sympathies.

But the way to address it would have been to say “we have had a clear instruction from the electorate, we are to fully leave the EU, but will then build again in an open, tolerant, pro business way which sticks to Tory principles and builds free trade deals around the world, not least with the EU”.

But May bottled it and called a daft election she failed to win (unrelated to Brexit). Hence the infighting. It will only be solved with a new leader, and a new election.

Bacchus
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:07 pm
Been Liked: 701 times
Has Liked: 181 times
Contact:

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Bacchus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:50 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: They therefore have my sympathies.
They have your sympathies for having to deal with a situation they brought entirely upon themselves?
These 2 users liked this post: nil_desperandum Greenmile

LoveCurryPies
Posts: 4396
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:00 am
Been Liked: 1619 times
Has Liked: 694 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by LoveCurryPies » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:56 pm

Corbyn has it easy criticising from the sidelines. Truth is he wouldn't have a clue. Can you imagine him doing the Brexit negotiations? And what about his offers of restoring free Uni places before the election and then admitting they couldn't afford to have done it. Clearly not a man of his words.

All the parties are a shambles at the moment. LibDems have Vince Cable....another criticising every decision but who would have probably made the same decisions. Bunch of liars!

CrosspoolClarets
Posts: 6747
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
Been Liked: 1973 times
Has Liked: 504 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:57 pm

Oh, forgot to say, re: "Boris the tool" as hampstead labels him above.

He isn't prime minister material, but he has been right on most major calls, and has shown loyalty both to the wider electorate and to his constituents.

He is right that Heathrow is the wrong answer - how many world leading cities have to fly planes right over the city? A 50 year strategy has to end that, and address transport weaknesses with Heathrow too.

He is right over Brexit - he recognises the existential threat to the Tory party over this.

His weakness is that he craves attention and has been seduced by high (foreign) office. I sense he will soon retreat to the back benches to continue his blue sky thinking which he is good at, and leave the delivery (which he isn't good at) to others. That's the point when the 52% stop watching to see what happens and start making their voice heard again.

Then the fireworks will start. I (unfortunately) predict that it will make what has gone before look like a pre match warm up.

CrosspoolClarets
Posts: 6747
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
Been Liked: 1973 times
Has Liked: 504 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:59 pm

Bacchus wrote:They have your sympathies for having to deal with a situation they brought entirely upon themselves?
Which bit of my post didn't you agree with Bacchus? The split is right down their ideological base. They couldn't avoid the disarray. That's why Europe has been their nemesis for 50 years. They should have cleanly left, then built again.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:02 pm

Boris Johnson has shown loyalty?

Jeez Crosspool, I know you look at things differently to me but thats a bit of a curve ball. He'd drop Brexit like a shot if it gave him a chance to be PM. You know this.

JohnMcGreal
Posts: 2483
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:37 am
Been Liked: 1458 times
Has Liked: 468 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by JohnMcGreal » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:03 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Which bit of my post didn't you agree with Bacchus? The split is right down their ideological base. They couldn't avoid the disarray. That's why Europe has been their nemesis for 50 years. They should have cleanly left, then built again.
Or if the issue so great that they're prepared to inflict economic and social damage on the whole country, it should have been the death knell of the conservative party.

Instead, they opted to save their party at the expense of the country, which is exactly why they are unfit to govern.

nil_desperandum
Posts: 7653
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
Been Liked: 1917 times
Has Liked: 4254 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by nil_desperandum » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:15 pm

Bacchus wrote:
They have your sympathies for having to deal with a situation they brought entirely upon themselves?

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Which bit of my post didn't you agree with Bacchus? The split is right down their ideological base. They couldn't avoid the disarray. That's why Europe has been their nemesis for 50 years. They should have cleanly left, then built again.
They brought it on themselves because they included a foolish manifesto promise about holding an EU referendum in order to keep UKip at bay at an election where they weren't really expecting to get a majority. (i.e. any coalition party would have not backed it).
Then they called it without making the proper preparations, and ran the campaign badly.
Most significantly however, it never occurred to them that "leave" might win by a narrow majority thus dividing the country completely and exposing the real conflict in the Tory party that it was intended to heal.
Last edited by nil_desperandum on Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:18 pm

More importantly as well, the outcome divided the four countries that make up the UK, pushing us all further apart.

AndrewJB
Posts: 3825
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1165 times
Has Liked: 761 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:36 pm

And they say first past the post delivers stability. The government are a disgrace. At a time of such importance to the nation to be fannying around two years after the referendum having accomplished next to nothing, without an agreed way forward or desired outcome, and with cabinet ministers elevating their own self interest above that of the country; disgrace is too kind a description. Not to mention free stuff for extremists just to get a working majority. If opinions are too divergent within the party about brexit, May should reach out to build a working consensus outside of her party, and sideline the extremists. Either that or resign and let the party choose someone else to cobble something together. What we've been left with is the worst of all possible things. A weak and unstable prime minister running a two bit circus, and every day the clock continues ticking. She's fortunate in that 90% of the press support her. Can you imagine how quickly she'd be out of office if they attacked her even half as much as they attack Corbyn?
This user liked this post: martin_p

South West Claret.
Posts: 5904
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 pm
Been Liked: 788 times
Has Liked: 511 times
Location: Devon

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:20 pm

Is Tory discipline on the verge of breaking down? As far as Europe is concerned of course.

The real trouble for the us/the country though is they are our poxy Government.

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4645 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by tiger76 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:41 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:


They brought it on themselves because they included a foolish manifesto promise about holding an EU referendum in order to keep UKip at bay at an election where they weren't really expecting to get a majority. (i.e. any coalition party would have not backed it).
Then they called it without making the proper preparations, and ran the campaign badly.
Most significantly however, it never occurred to them that "leave" might win by a narrow majority thus dividing the country completely and exposing the real conflict in the Tory party that it was intended to heal.
Bang on the money,Cameron inserted that manifesto pledge to appease some of the hard-right Tory MP'S,but like most experts he never expected to win an outright majority.Once he had done so it would have been difficult to abandon such a high-profile commitment,the LibDems found to their cost in 2015 the price of seeming to rip up a solemn pledge over tuition fees.Even then nobody in the higher echelons of the Government thought brexit feasible,so Cameron gambled he could travel to the EU 27 get some lip service negotiations,and still carry a referendum in achieving a remain vote.

It was only nearer the vote that reality kicked in and the establishment saw the polls closing,but by then it was too late to halt the momentum the leave campaign had attained.That is why there was no contingency plans in place beforehand and Mark Carney had to pull a rabbit out of a hat with a stimulus plan,after all the main protagonists from each faction had left the stage.

Two years on and still nobody has a coherent strategy as too how the UK orderly exits from the EU,the Labour party don't appear to have any valid alternatives to offer either,on the one hand they want to remain in the single market,but claim they can control immigration.This is blatantly not possible as the EU have said constantly if you want the benefits of the single market,this is tied in with the four freedoms.

Is it any wonder the politicians hope England's footballers have a good World Cup campaign to obscure all this negative press.

scouseclaret
Posts: 2674
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:29 pm
Been Liked: 897 times
Has Liked: 270 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by scouseclaret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:44 pm

The roads are f*****.
The trains are f*****
The NHS is f*****
The schools are underfunded.
Brexit is a shambles entirely of the Tory party’s own making and the Windrush scandal brought shame on the nation. We also have the worst performing economy of any major western economy with the possible exception of Italy.

May is hopelessly out of her depth, Boris has proved himself to be a morally bankrupt, opportunistic liar willing to sacrifice any principle he may ever have had on the altar of personal ambition. And don’t get me started on Jacob Rees-Mogg.

So I ask you. Whatever your doubts about Corbyn, could it really be any worse?

ontario claret
Posts: 5459
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:13 am
Been Liked: 697 times
Has Liked: 1725 times
Location: Brooklin

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by ontario claret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:25 pm

Leading the Tory Party is like herding cats.

Bacchus
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:07 pm
Been Liked: 701 times
Has Liked: 181 times
Contact:

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Bacchus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:42 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Which bit of my post didn't you agree with Bacchus? The split is right down their ideological base. They couldn't avoid the disarray. That's why Europe has been their nemesis for 50 years. They should have cleanly left, then built again.
I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment of how it is breaking the Tory party. I disagree with your suggestion that they deserve sympathy for it. They've created this entire shambles themselves. They called the referendum, they had no plan to win it, they had no plan for if they lost it. They put demonstrable liars and incompetents in high office and keep them there regardless of conduct. They have allowed themselves to be held to ransom by the 'will of the people' and have even started to attack their natural allies because they are too spineless to allow evidence, reason or expertise to derail Project Brexit At Any Cost.

Sympathy? The only positive to come out of this entire farce is that the Tory party is eating itself alive. It's just a shame that it's desperation to cling on to power is dragging the country down with it.
These 5 users liked this post: AndrewJB scouseclaret Greenmile Walton nil_desperandum

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2637 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:52 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:


They brought it on themselves because they included a foolish manifesto promise about holding an EU referendum in order to keep UKip at bay at an election where they weren't really expecting to get a majority. (i.e. any coalition party would have not backed it).
Then they called it without making the proper preparations, and ran the campaign badly.
Most significantly however, it never occurred to them that "leave" might win by a narrow majority thus dividing the country completely and exposing the real conflict in the Tory party that it was intended to heal.
MPs of ALL the parties voted, by a ratio of 5 to 1, hold a referendum, on the question of whether to Remain or Leave the European Union.

It wasn't just the Tories.

martin_p
Posts: 11083
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 4060 times
Has Liked: 745 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by martin_p » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:00 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:MPs of ALL the parties voted, by a ratio of 5 to 1, hold a referendum, on the question of whether to Remain or Leave the European Union.

It wasn't just the Tories.
It wasn’t in the losing parties’ manifesto and even if it had been we all know that losing parties can’t enact their manifestos!
This user liked this post: Greenmile

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2637 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:04 pm

martin_p wrote:It wasn’t in the losing parties’ manifesto and even if it had been we all know that losing parties can’t enact their manifestos!
You're learning.

Slowly.

bfcjg
Posts: 14846
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 5696 times
Has Liked: 8364 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by bfcjg » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:18 pm

I can sense a general election coming,the pro Europe liberals will hold the balance of power and do a deal with whoever will offer a new referendum. I think it's been engineered.

ontario claret
Posts: 5459
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:13 am
Been Liked: 697 times
Has Liked: 1725 times
Location: Brooklin

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by ontario claret » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:53 pm

That's what Liberals do. That's why they're the middle party.

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:01 pm

bfcjg wrote:I can sense a general election coming,the pro Europe liberals will hold the balance of power and do a deal with whoever will offer a new referendum. I think it's been engineered.

Yes. Brexit has totally been engineered as a complete failure. It can't possibly be because it was always going to be a complete failure and that we simply made a dumb decision. It can only be that the nasty libruls did it all deliberately.

Woodleyclaret
Posts: 8507
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1843 times
Has Liked: 2186 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by Woodleyclaret » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:52 pm

All this crap about trying to get a second vote on leaving the EU is nonsense.For those that lost deal with it.We need to move on.

nil_desperandum
Posts: 7653
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
Been Liked: 1917 times
Has Liked: 4254 times

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:01 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:All this crap about trying to get a second vote on leaving the EU is nonsense.For those that lost deal with it.We need to move on.
Fine, but no one can agree on the destination, especially the "leavers". If you can help point them in the right direction, and get negotiations on track then you'll make a name for yourself.
We've all lost and we all have to find our own way of dealing with it. Burying your head in the sand and simply "keeping the faith" isn't the only way of approaching it.

ontario claret
Posts: 5459
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:13 am
Been Liked: 697 times
Has Liked: 1725 times
Location: Brooklin

Re: Tory Party in Disarray

Post by ontario claret » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:53 pm

I always laugh when I hear comments about "nasty libruls". I know that IT is being facetious. I suspect him of being a "nasty librul" himself. That's because he's such a bright guy. What people don't realize is that all of the mudslinging that goes on between the left and right in politics goes on within the Liberal Party. Then, they go out and present an united face. The Liberal Party. Big boy politics.

Post Reply