Pope possibly replace Pickford for pens

gazr · Post by **gazr** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:32 am

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... n-12842666" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They should just let him have the full match, brilliant if it happens and we do go through on pens as it will show how good Pope is

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:39 am

"England could be saved by a Pope"

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:48 am

I have an idea....
Why not do the sensible thing and put the Pope in for the whole match?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:50 am

Pope has saved one penalty in his Burnley career, and he's faced around a dozen.

That's not a good rate.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:12 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Pope has saved one penalty in his Burnley career, and he's faced around a dozen.

That's not a good rate.

Says 3 out of 13 somewhere.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:15 am

I don't think he's saved 3, at least not in the first team.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:21 am

It's lazy journalism.

They've gone off his Transfermarkt profile, which states that he saved the penalty which Glenn Murray blazed over.

It also includes a penalty from when he was at Bury.

As I stated, his penalty saving record for Burnley has been poor. 1 save.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:24 am

Pope 3 out of 13 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/nick-po ... ler/192080" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pickford 0 out of 25 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jordan- ... 1#gehalten" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Butland 4 out of 25 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jack-bu ... ler/128899" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For comparison Kasper Schmeichel has 20 out of 70 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kasper- ... eler/16911" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CAVEATS
Transfermarkt's stats may or may not be true.
The stats show not scored, others may have a view on what part a keeper plays in a penalty not being scored even if they do not physically stop the ball entering the net, I don't believe there is a definitive view.
I can't copy simple numbers and Pickford should be 5 out of 30.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:26 am

aggi wrote:Pope 3 out of 13 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/nick-po ... ler/192080" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pickford 0 out of 25 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jordan- ... 1#gehalten" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Butland 4 out of 25 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jack-bu ... ler/128899" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For comparison Kasper Schmeichel has 20 out of 70 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kasper- ... eler/16911" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pope didn't save Glenn Murray's penalty.

Stats are flawed.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:32 am

I’d rather he played the whole game or not at all.

At least then he’ll be less of a scapegoat of England are knocked out on penalties.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:36 am

Stats are flawed - they are when they don't suit an agenda

SGEclaret · Post by **SGEclaret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:38 am

Not a bad plan. I was shouting for Beasant to be brought on during Italia 90 semi final - imagine!
I think England might consider this too unsportsmanlike to do though...

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:42 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Pope didn't save Glenn Murray's penalty.

Stats are flawed.

The end result is the same. Did Murray sky it in reaction to Pope being in goal, who knows?

(Although I don't think the margins are clear enough to make it a viable tactic.)

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:51 am

Id stick Sterling in goals. The Colombia players won’t even be able to stand up right never mind kick a ball they’d be laughing so much.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:58 am

aggi wrote:Pope 3 out of 13 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/nick-po ... ler/192080" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pickford 0 out of 25 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jordan- ... 1#gehalten" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Butland 4 out of 25 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jack-bu ... ler/128899" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For comparison Kasper Schmeichel has 20 out of 70 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kasper- ... eler/16911" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even on your link it says Pickford has saved 5 out of 30.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:00 pm

aggi wrote:The end result is the same. Did Murray sky it in reaction to Pope being in goal, who knows?

(Although I don't think the margins are clear enough to make it a viable tactic.)

Still doesn't mean Pope saved it because he didn't, it was off target.

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:02 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Pope didn't save Glenn Murray's penalty.

Stats are flawed.

Every single Pope thread Upthebeehole is on arguing with people and having a go at Pope's ability.

Strange guy

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:09 pm

I remember shouting at the TV in 1990, 5 minutes from the end of extra-time in 1990 for Bobby Robson to replace Shilton with Dave Beasant, for the Penalty shoot out..........obviously not loudly enough..
Shilton was still a great keeper but at 40 his spring had gone, and duly got no-where near any of the German penalties.... Trevor Steven was the only sub he used, so the option was there....it would have played with the German's minds....

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:09 pm

dsr wrote:Even on your link it says Pickford has saved 5 out of 30.

It does, clearly we should keep Pickford in goal ...

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:13 pm

Are we now in agreement that the Daily Mirror article is a crock of sh*t?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:14 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote:Every single Pope thread Upthebeehole is on arguing with people and having a go at Pope's ability.

Strange guy

I don't think he had a go he pointed out an obvious flaw in the stats by using facts, you can assume his agenda but you can't really argue with what he's said on this topic so far.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:14 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Stats are flawed - they are when they don't suit an agenda

The stats are flawed when the stats are flawed.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:38 pm

Wouldn’t be the first time sub keeper brought on for penalties.

The Dutch brought Krul on in the last minute of extra time against Costa Rica for that same reason

winsomeyen · Post by **winsomeyen** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:43 pm

[quote="SGEclaret"]Not a bad plan. I was shouting for Beasant to be brought on during Italia 90 semi final - imagine!
I think England might consider this too unsportsmanlike to do though...[

Given the fact that we have three players in the team who are noted for diving,
Southgate obviously is not concerned with sportsmanship.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:49 pm

Isn’t Pope 6’7”

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:51 pm

If only Marlon Beresford was in the Euro 96 squad

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:54 pm

Clarets4me wrote:I remember shouting at the TV in 1990, 5 minutes from the end of extra-time in 1990 for Bobby Robson to replace Shilton

He'd have done a better job.

bfc1984 · Post by **bfc1984** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:55 pm

Think it is more about intimidation than anything,Pope out of the 3 appears a lot more gangly and it can be a bit more off putting.On another note I really don't rate Pickford at all he can do something really daft on his day and is more prone to error be number 3 for me.If you can find the 2 goals at West Ham that he let in last year have a look they was shocking.Think he will throw one in soon hope not!

SGEclaret · Post by **SGEclaret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:59 pm

[quote="winsomeyen"][/quote]
You mean outfield players!?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:59 pm

bfc1984, I don't think he's any worse than the rest of the defence, but I agree that, like our back 3, he has a cock up of the highest order just waiting to pounce. Which is why I think Southgate has gone with 3 at the back. He knws this, so is going for the scoring more than them, plan.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:01 pm

How to save penalties -

30% of penalties go to the right
30% of penalties go to the left
40% go down the middle

So don't choose which way to dive, rely on your reflexes (like you do to stop nearly all other shots) from a position in the middle of the goal

It helps if you have long arms and legs too - Nick Pope springs to mind

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:04 pm

So don't dive. Just stand there.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:05 pm

FactualFrank wrote:So don't dive. Just stand there.

That gives you the highest chance of saving a penalty - and if you can dive too then that would be a big plus

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:27 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:How to save penalties -

30% of penalties go to the right
30% of penalties go to the left
40% go down the middle

So don't choose which way to dive, rely on your reflexes (like you do to stop nearly all other shots) from a position in the middle of the goal

It helps if you have long arms and legs too - Nick Pope springs to mind

That's a very good point; when a player places their penalty there's a chance to react to it if the keeper hasn't committed himself. Added to that, the penalty taker has been waiting for the keeper to dive before placing it to the other side; if the keeper hasn't committed, he would have to decide as he's striking the ball increasing the likelihood of taking a poorer penalty.

Regarding saving a sub keeper for penalties - it limits the managers options for making a substitution to affect the game inside the 90 or 120 minutes which would probably make it unlikely to happen.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:34 pm

John Coleman did it once at Accy Stanley, not because one goalie was better than the other at saving penalties, but because he wanted to opponents to start double-thinking things and confusing themselves. They won, so it may have worked.

But then, Coleman doesn't use subs much anyway. (7 consecutive games without a sub last year.) If England have sound tactical or fitness reasons for wanting to use all four subs, they aren't going to save one for a goalkeeper.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:36 pm

Maybe Pope is taking brilliant penalties in training and GS fancies him to score.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:37 pm

I can see why it could work psychologically. The taker thinks, "Crikey, he must be good at saving them, otherwise they wouldn't be bringing him on".

I'd love to see a bit of 'Dudek Dancing' as well.

LAM · Post by **LAM** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:39 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:If only Marlon Beresford was in the Euro 96 squad

Beat me to it. Always thought he should have been in the squad based solely on his penalty saving ability.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:42 pm

If Pope has the bottle to agree to this and goes on to help an England win, then he deserves to be made number 1 goalie.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:44 pm

Hell come on as a sub in the 119th min then punch clear from a corner... Straight into the top corner of the columbia net.

Heard it here first

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:45 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:Hell come on as a sub in the 119th min then punch clear from a corner... Straight into the top corner of the columbia net.

Heard it here first

*logs in to Betfred.com to place bet*

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:47 pm

LAM wrote:Beat me to it. Always thought he should have been in the squad based solely on his penalty saving ability.

Tbf, I don't think David Seaman was bad at saving them.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Has anyone ever seen a keeper stand still in the middle for a penalty? I can't ever recall it happening.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:50 pm

Murger wrote:Tbf, I don't think David Seaman was bad at saving them.

31.8% penalties saved. Not bad at all.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:54 pm

FactualFrank wrote:*logs in to Betfred.com to place bet*

You are not allowed to mention B**fre* on here, it's LABA360 these days.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:03 pm

gazr wrote:https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... n-12842666

They should just let him have the full match, brilliant if it happens and we do go through on pens as it will show how good Pope is

Not if they initially scored all 5 it wouldn't and the best in the world are not known for their penalty saves unfortunately.

Just picking him for the 90 minutes would have been better

winsomeyen · Post by **winsomeyen** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:08 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:That gives you the highest chance of saving a penalty - and if you can dive too then that would be a big plus

Deli Ali is good at diving

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:16 pm

IF Pope came on I doubt he would replace Pickford as he has already come out and said he's up for taking one himself. Maybe Pope goes in goal and Pickford replace one of the CB's who isn't keen on taking one?

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:05 pm

Pope should be doing hours of training just on penalties and studying the “penalty maps” of all the opposition players.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:07 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:Pope should be doing hours of training just on penalties and studying the “penalty maps” of all the opposition players.

I do wonder if managers bother with things like that. They should, but I wonder if they do. A player who takes a penalty will have a favoured side. Some will no doubt go to the left/right 60%+ of the time, which the keeper should know.