Our transfer dealings are poor

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:50 pm

Ive had enough. That is it. Burnley inherently unhappy unless it's s all out doom and gloom. I reckon the Orient game was the happiest we will be since title.

We just finished 7th.

The transfer strategy clearly works.

How can people complain about failure before it happens. It is clearly working - please moan if we fail not on predictions of we might fail.

Father Jack · Post by **Father Jack** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:50 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:".........But wages are only slowly going up.........."

Only if you consider a 125% increase in the last set of accounts to be 'slow'( £27.1m to £61.2m).

Certainly an increase that surprised many, me included and expect a further significant increase to Jun'18.

Royboyclaret - always interesting to read your analysis of our accounts. What did you think our increased wage bill would be for 2016/17 season?
Do the accounts breakout how much bonus was paid out for staying up, and can we get down to the basic wagebill of the playing staff compared to non playing staff?

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:52 pm

Steddyman wrote:The OP has got the thread title wrong. It should be:

Our transfer dealings are non-existent.

That would be wrong too unless it turns out we sign nobody prior to the window closing. Which I very much doubt. Transfer window after transfer window you pop up to moan and panic.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:02 pm

Does anyone think we sent scouts to the world cup?

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:06 pm

mkmel wrote:Brighton and Huddersfield are going mad with the former today making their 9th and the latter making their 7th signings

You can't buy team spirit,and this was important for both those sides last season,if they lose sight of what kept them in the division,it could go pear-shaped very quickly for one or both.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:21 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:Ive had enough. That is it. Burnley inherently unhappy unless it's s all out doom and gloom. I reckon the Orient game was the happiest we will be since title.

We just finished 7th.

The transfer strategy clearly works.

How can people complain about failure before it happens. It is clearly working - please moan if we fail not on predictions of we might fail.

It's so they can say "I told you so" if we have a bad season.

Funnily enough they are usually very quiet from August to December and February to May.

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:38 pm

taio wrote:That would be wrong too unless it turns out we sign nobody prior to the window closing. Which I very much doubt. Transfer window after transfer window you pop up to moan and panic.

And transfer window after transfer window we continue to sign too few quality players.

What we do is sign good players and coach them into very good players. It would be nice if we signed some excellent players and coached them into brilliant players.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:43 pm

Steddyman wrote:And transfer window after transfer window we continue to sign too few quality players.

What we do is sign good players and coach them into very good players. It would be nice if we signed some excellent players and coached them into brilliant players.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:43 pm

Steddyman wrote:And transfer window after transfer window we continue to sign too few quality players.

What we do is sign good players and coach them into very good players. It would be nice if we signed some excellent players and coached them into brilliant players.

Where would you expect us to finish in the league if we did as you suggest?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:53 pm

Father Jack wrote:Royboyclaret - always interesting to read your analysis of our accounts. What did you think our increased wage bill would be for 2016/17 season?
Do the accounts breakout how much bonus was paid out for staying up, and can we get down to the basic wagebill of the playing staff compared to non playing staff?

Father Jack.......I think it's fair to say that the Wage bill of £61.2 million for '16/'17 was something of a shock to most shareholders based on previous years' figures. Clearly the total is very heavily bonus driven but, for the first time, the Club have carefully consolidated all earnings into the one figure of £61.2m.

As a guide, however, we know from the previous year's accounts that exceptional promotion costs amounted to £11.3m (118 players, managerial and training staff) within a total promotion cost committment of £13.2m (67 other sales, admin and ancillary staff).

I think it's realistic to say that the average weekly wage for a Burnley first team player will now be in excess of £45k (including bonus), a figure that would be unheard of just a couple of financial years ago. Nevertheless, and to put the figure into context, only Huddersfield and Brighton will report smaller Wage bills in the season just ended.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:55 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I think you mean Nicky Law - he's head of academy recruitment and is currently involved with the u23s because Michael Duff is standing in for Tony Loughlan and Andy Farrell is unavailable, Loughlan and Farrell have both had hip replacement ops.

We could increase our attraction to the younger generation of players by marketing ourselves as a Hip Hop (Hip Op) club.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:10 pm

I think we have witnessed significant improvement in the performance of our manager, the development of our players and the quality of our physical infrastructure. While these aspects of the club are clearly demonstrating good forward progression the standard and performance of our recruitement strategy appears to be in a holding pattern or possibly regression.

Standing still isn't an option, every area of the club needs to be showing signs of ongoing improvement. Any areas that don't are letting the side down and compromising our overall ability to compete and prosper.

Doing enough to get by is not doing enough to get better.

I certainly wouldn't describe our transfer dealings as poor, but there is definitely room for change and improvement.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:16 pm

You could apply change and improvement to pretty much every club.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:19 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:I think we have witnessed significant improvement in the performance of our manager, the development of our players and the quality of our physical infrastructure. While these aspects of the club are clearly demonstrating good forward progression the standard and performance of our recruitement strategy appears to be in a holding pattern or possibly regression.

Standing still isn't an option, every area of the club needs to be showing signs of ongoing improvement. Any areas that don't are letting the side down and compromising our overall ability to compete and prosper.

Doing enough to get by is not doing enough to get better.

I certainly wouldn't describe our transfer dealings as poor, but there is definitely room for change and improvement.

Far too early to draw any such conclusions. August 9th is the key date.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:21 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:I think we have witnessed significant improvement in the performance of our manager, the development of our players and the quality of our physical infrastructure. While these aspects of the club are clearly demonstrating good forward progression the standard and performance of our recruitement strategy appears to be in a holding pattern or possibly regression.

Standing still isn't an option, every area of the club needs to be showing signs of ongoing improvement. Any areas that don't are letting the side down and compromising our overall ability to compete and prosper.

Doing enough to get by is not doing enough to get better.

I certainly wouldn't describe our transfer dealings as poor, but there is definitely room for change and improvement.

So what you are saying is that Sean Dyche, as manager of the club, is not doing a good enough job because our transfer dealings, which he oversees, are nowhere near good enough.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:25 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:We could increase our attraction to the younger generation of players by marketing ourselves as a Hip Hop (Hip Op) club.

Nice effort LTL but still pretty poor

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:29 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:So what you are saying is that Sean Dyche, as manager of the club, is not doing a good enough job because our transfer dealings, which he oversees, are nowhere near good enough.

I'm saying that our transfer dealings aren't poor, but there is definitely room for change and improvement

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:35 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:I'm saying that our transfer dealings aren't poor, but there is definitely room for change and improvement

How after last season. Is it the champions league or nothing for you next season.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:47 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:I'm saying that our transfer dealings aren't poor, but there is definitely room for change and improvement

To repeat, August 9th is the key date. Delay any judgement until then.

Also worth remembering that the man who actually oversees ALL incoming transfers just happens to be the owner and founder of a global recruitment company. Perhaps he knows just a little about hiring people.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:01 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:How after last season. Is it the champions league or nothing for you next season.

Before last season I posted my expectation of "a mid table scrap", which is the same as my expectations for the upcoming season. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

I will be happy if we retain our place in the Premier League.

I've already said, in other posts, that we have a strong squad and even if we don't manage to sign anyone it won't signal an immedate end of the world scenario. However, I don't see anything wrong in recognising an area that could benefit from some extra improvement. Denying that is like saying "job done" put your feet up and have a cuppa.

I'm not alone in thinking this

"We definitely need to move forward on the recruitment side of the things and the depth of the recruitment, looking further afield to get the same depth that we can get here in this country. I think there are lots of different ways to move the club forward." Sean Dyche

Recognising an area that could be improved isn't a cause for alarm, its part of the recipe for ongoing development. The only true cause for alarm would be an ignorance of the areas we could look to improve on.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:38 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:So what you are saying is that Sean Dyche, as manager of the club, is not doing a good enough job because our transfer dealings, which he oversees, are nowhere near good enough.

I'm not sure he does at all though, of course he picks the players to target, I highly doubt Dyche is the one responsible for submitting offers and wrapping up deals with contracts on the table.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:28 am

Royboyclaret wrote:Father Jack.......I think it's fair to say that the Wage bill of £61.2 million for '16/'17 was something of a shock to most shareholders based on previous years' figures. Clearly the total is very heavily bonus driven but, for the first time, the Club have carefully consolidated all earnings into the one figure of £61.2m.

As a guide, however, we know from the previous year's accounts that exceptional promotion costs amounted to £11.3m (118 players, managerial and training staff) within a total promotion cost committment of £13.2m (67 other sales, admin and ancillary staff).

I think it's realistic to say that the average weekly wage for a Burnley first team player will now be in excess of £45k (including bonus), a figure that would be unheard of just a couple of financial years ago. Nevertheless, and to put the figure into context, only Huddersfield and Brighton will report smaller Wage bills in the season just ended.

118 players ? ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN ??? jesus ******* wept, we need to stop wasting money on at least 60 of them

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:24 am

According to nixon there is quite a bit in the weekend paper about us . One to keep an eye out for

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:28 am

Reecey1987 wrote:According to nixon there is quite a bit in the weekend paper about us . One to keep an eye out for

I wonder who’s leaving...

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:32 pm

SonofPog wrote:Personally quiet happy with the clubs transfer policy.

I understand their reasoning for sticking to mainly UK based players, certainly seems to have fostered the team spirit that SD believes is key.

Traditionally we've been at the back of the que for transfers, due mainly to the wages we pay and our stature (likely relegation candidates). I've understood this and accept that means our business will be done quite close to Deadline Day.

Last season / Currently I believe we actually have quite a big squad (For Us), a couple of players have left, but in the main we're pretty well covered in each position. And IIRC we're going for a more quality over quantity approach this transfer window.

This again puts us up against our two main drawbacks to recruitment, wages and stature, can be argued that stature has changed, although not in the bookies eyes. But wages are only slowly going up and are probably, i would guess, still one of the lowest in the division on both an individual and collective basis.

All in All then, personally I dont expect us to do loads of business, maybe 1 or 2 players, and as usual, for the usual reasons I expect them to be done late on in the window.

Tl/Dr: Personally quite happy with the clubs transfer policies during and before SDs regime and I dont expect their approch to change anytime soon.

What you mean is itshould be a debate I guess.

Sadly some people take it too far and it was these I was alluding to. I think most people know what I mean.

SonofPog · Post by **SonofPog** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:42 pm

superdimitri wrote:What you mean is itshould be a debate I guess.

Sadly some people take it too far and it was these I was alluding to. I think most people know what I mean.

Sorry Superdimitri I dont understand your post, or why you quoted me. I just gave my opinion, didn't try and pick apart anyone eles. I can understand others perhaps wanting us to be more "adventerous" but personally, as per my post, im quite happy with the transfer dealings.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:50 pm

Reecey1987 wrote:According to nixon there is quite a bit in the weekend paper about us . One to keep an eye out for

Any idea what/who it was?

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:52 pm

KRBFC wrote:Any idea what/who it was?

Its that long article that was posted early this morning by ct

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:54 pm

SD reading the rest of this board

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:59 pm

Reecey1987 wrote:Its that long article that was posted early this morning by ct

Where abouts? link?

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:06 pm

KRBFC wrote:Where abouts? link?

Post 25 in alan nixon thread

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:19 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:How after last season. Is it the champions league or nothing for you next season.

That’s missing the point entirely. It’s not about improving on our position last season, which would be a hugely tall order. The post that you were replying to was about improving our transfer dealings, two very different things.

Royboy is right though. Whilst so far it’s been poor, particularly when we undoubtedly want and benefit from players having a full pre season, 8 August is the date to make a judgement.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:17 pm

DCWat wrote:That’s missing the point entirely. It’s not about improving on our position last season, which would be a hugely tall order. The post that you were replying to was about improving our transfer dealings, two very different things.

Royboy is right though. Whilst so far it’s been poor, particularly when we undoubtedly want and benefit from players having a full pre season, 8 August is the date to make a judgement.

I just still think 'HOW' can anybody complain. If we had struggled then yes.

This thing he and the club is doing is not luck. You don't consistently get lucky. We will develop nicely and with the right playing staff. Let them get on with it and worry about the price of fuel and electricity.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:35 pm

It’s not complaining, it’s wanting to see improvements that may benefit us financially (a bigger, cheaper market) and ultimately improve us on the pitch.

No one is discounting what happened last season, nor disputing that it was a fantastic achievement.

Last season is gone though and every club will be looking to improve on that. For us improvement likely won’t be finishing as high as seventh as it’s likely others will spend more and be able to progress more than ourselves.

Does that mean we can’t improve? If you look solely from the position of league position, then no, we probably can’t. Does that mean we just accept our lot or does it mean that we look to improve in our scouting network, recruitment etc. and try to find ways to lessen the advantage that others in the league have.

This piffle about forgetting what we did last season is a tad nonsensical.

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:07 pm

I think many on here do not understand through technology we have the same look at overseas players as others our database is as big as anybody else's.

The only issue with Technology and analytics are they do not show you the persons hidden attributes of the mental ones.

We do play it safe if you call it fine margins and transfers are a risk but we try to cut much out about that as they can.

It is hard to find
the right player
at the right price
wanting the right wage within a structure
with the right quality
who has the right mental attributes to fit into our team.

So for all the experts out there who do you want him to buy realistically

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:14 pm

Wolves have apparently agreed a fee of £5-6 million for João moutinho.

That's not a bad price for a player of his quality.

Maybe the club needs to look at buying shares in a Football Agents company...

Duffer_ · Post by **Duffer_** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:57 pm

We rightly value character in our recruitment process. Much is made of Garlick's approach that his served him well in the corporate recruitment business but have we been creative enough in trying to overcome barriers in overseas markets?

Garlick talks about taking references from the last x employers. What's stopping us doing that with overseas players?

We'd rather have players that go home to their wives than the casino. We don't have a good track record of reviewing domestic transfer targets' social media activity so I'm not sure that we are taking advantage of all the information that is out there.

We don't want to rock the dressing room boat. Why doesnt Garlick use more of the tools he employs in his industry? Why not perform psychometric testing before we get anywhere near a medical? Why not include senior players in an interview process? Do we consider that our manager and dressing room will have a positive impact on character?

It's a big financial risk. Why not take on loan (Aug to Dec) with a fixed option to buy?

Sure, players and agents may baulk at some of these practices but that in itself would be quite telling about the player's desire to join us.

Successful recruitment relies on fishing in the biggest pond to improve quality. Of course we could be doing or trying to do some/all of the above but my concern is that we are using recruitment speak as an excuse when it could be an opportunity.

UTC!

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:33 pm

You wonder about all this checking a players character / bad habits stuff , when we came within 5 minutes of signing Grosicki

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:43 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Wolves have apparently agreed a fee of £5-6 million for João moutinho.

That's not a bad price for a player of his quality.

Maybe the club needs to look at buying shares in a Football Agents company...

On top of which you can probably add a big signing on fee, a big agents fee and huge wages. What matters is the total package over the two years, which is not disclosed. On that basis, we have no idea this is a good price or not.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:41 pm

SonofPog wrote:Sorry Superdimitri I dont understand your post, or why you quoted me. I just gave my opinion, didn't try and pick apart anyone eles. I can understand others perhaps wanting us to be more "adventerous" but personally, as per my post, im quite happy with the transfer dealings.

Check the list post you quoted of mine for further info.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:47 pm

kaptin1 wrote:On top of which you can probably add a big signing on fee, a big agents fee and huge wages. What matters is the total package over the two years, which is not disclosed. On that basis, we have no idea this is a good price or not.

He was on £60k a week at Monaco it turns out, not so good after all.

SonofPog · Post by **SonofPog** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:47 pm

superdimitri wrote:Check the list post you quoted of mine for further info.

I never quoted you, that was the post before mine.

whiffa · Post by **whiffa** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:01 am

It is slightly worrying when you scroll down the list and we're the only club without a single incoming transfer I must say...

http://www.skysports.com/football/transfer-deals

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:12 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:He was on £60k a week at Monaco it turns out, not so good after all.

He is on 75k a week and like all of Monacos the tax is paid by the club not the player....meaning his 75k is all his

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:17 am

Cleveleys_claret wrote:He is on 75k a week and like all of Monacos the tax is paid by the club not the player....meaning his 75k is all his

So the club would have to fork out about £30k p w ti the taxman on top. Imagine doing that for a few more players. Blueprint for (our) disaster if we did that sort of thing.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:18 am

whiffa wrote:It is slightly worrying when you scroll down the list and we're the only club without a single incoming transfer I must say...

http://www.skysports.com/football/transfer-deals

Spurs?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:21 am

boatshed bill wrote:So the club would have to fork out about £30k p w ti the taxman on top. Imagine doing that for a few more players. Blueprint for (our) disaster if we did that sort of thing.

Were from the make do and mend era....

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:21 am

whiffa wrote:It is slightly worrying when you scroll down the list and we're the only club without a single incoming transfer I must say...

http://www.skysports.com/football/transfer-deals

I'm not in the least worried. Our players got us 7th. OK, we may have to accept that we will drop some places, but that's about it.
Show some belief in what we have, and what we have achieved.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:22 am

tim_noone wrote:Were from the make do and mend era....

Tim, that basically means we would be paying £90k + pw for one player. It's not sustainable.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:38 am

boatshed bill wrote:Tim, that basically means we would be paying £90k + pw for one player. It's not sustainable.

I think you misunderstand ....the team that got us 7th are a good team IMO. No need to panic buy as yet. Spurs finished 4th they haven't bought either. You /I would make do and mend.