Dyche: We may have to break the bank

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:34 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:Burnley’s ‘Playing it Safe’ model has seen us win two automatic promotions to the Prem(one immediately after being relegated), has seen us finish in our highest position since 1974, and finish in Europe for the first time in half a century. It’s also seen us invest in a brand new training facility. I’d only cast that approach away with extreme reluctance.

Also, reagarding Huddersfield and Brighton, neither have the looming prospect of expensive ground renovation on the horizon. Our ground is badly in need of at least two new stands. Without inheriting a purpose built stadium(Hudds) of having one built by a rich fan(BHA), we have to raise the money for that investment.

Garlick has said it will be five years until we even look at doing the ground up majorly

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:35 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Garlick has said it will be five years until we even look at doing the ground up majorly

Indeed. And the funding for that will already be being planned. It will cost a small fortune to do.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:35 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:We certainly have to adapt. I just hope we adapt with circumspection, and not wild abandon.

What do you think adapting looks like? What would you change? I struggle to see a future as a top flight club without a big money investor which I understand brings its own risk. What’s worrying is that we are heading towards the top 2 divisions falling into that category now. We could end up the best ran club in league 1

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:36 pm

Breaking the bank is all relative though isn’t it?

Burnley spending £50-60 million on transfers this season is not ‘breaking the bank’ based on our income. Last summer we spent around £40m on Wells (5m) Taylor (6m), Wood (15m), Walters (3m) and Cork (10m) in addition to the likes of Bardsley (undisclosed) and Legzdins (undisclosed).

Money moves on every season in this league, is a £10m increase in fees ‘breaking the bank’?

Granted, I have not included the fact Keane and Gray left into those figures, which may well be the truly telling point. However, we have seen players depart this summer at the end of their deals. I refuse to believe we don’t have the funds for significant outlay without a big sale or two like last summer happening.

I am still confident we will sign three within the next fortnight, perhaps four. I am not including a keeper in that as depending on Heatons fitness it seems a waste of time to me.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:37 pm

KRBFC wrote:But if you bring in more cash than you spend the billionaire owners act as a safety blanket, that's all. They're spending the clubs money not their own.

Yes and what about FFP. There are ways round it like sponsoring your stadium name or something like that. But with these massive signings like Neymar is FFP still in operation?

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:38 pm

It’s quite straight forward really. Every year the tv money goes up, and so in turn do transfer fees and wages. More money in, more money out. Frankly if we don’t break our transfer record every year we’re in the Prem then we, the fans, are being sold short.

I’m sure something will turn up in the next week or so. I just wish we wouldn’t waste most of every transfer window waiting for this fairly obvious reality to dawn.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 pm

agreenwood wrote:Break the bank or smash the club’s previous record profit.

One of those things is likely to happen this season.

Unlikely to be the latter since the projected figure for last season of £58m includes £30m Profit on Sale of Keane and Gray. Net Profit for the previous season was £22.7m.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:Indeed. And the funding for that will already be being planned. It will cost a small fortune to do.

Why if we arent going to be in the premiership? He said as much....we will see where we are in 5 years time were his words. Also he touched on that he would probably be handing over the reins at that time to someone else

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:40 pm

boatshed bill wrote:These inflated transfer fees and wages are all but beyond us. Nobody's fault at Burnley

100% the fault of Burnley, amazing how we aren't the lowest wage payers in the division yet others are signing players (mainly from abroad where the value is). Either our scouting isn't up to scratch, our manager can't decide who he wants or our recruitment team need replacing. You cannot take part in a business at this level without having top people, I don't know what the exact issue is but it needs fixing if we want to stay in the PL and progress.

We don't want to end up panic buying like Juke, Wells etc but we also have to be prudent - to do that you need a scouting network. I'd rather the club come out and say "we are going with what we've got but we are going to invest 15 million in the scouting system" than us waste money. Same scenario as we did with Gawthorpe.

rufus lumley · Post by **rufus lumley** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:42 pm

Can’t see anybody coming in getting into the starting 11 if you add Defour Brady and Heaton to the team that started on Thursday if all stay fit anybody who comes in will be cover or will get a start in cup matches so I’m not over fussed about paying crazy money for a bench warmer.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:43 pm

Stayingup wrote:Yes and what about FFP. There are ways round it like sponsoring your stadium name or something like that. But with these massive signings like Neymar is FFP still in operation?

FFP is a sham

QPR just got fined 42 million for breaking FFP. However, the payment structure for that deal has been stretched to 10 years meaning QPR have to pay 4 million per year which is well within their financial planning per season. It's an absolute joke.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:45 pm

boatshed bill wrote:But we might be?

Well I certainly hope so.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:45 pm

MRG wrote:What do you think adapting looks like? What would you change? I struggle to see a future as a top flight club without a big money investor which I understand brings its own risk. What’s worrying is that we are heading towards the top 2 divisions falling into that category now. We could end up the best ran club in league 1

It doesn’t include Foreign Investment, as I think that’s Pie in the Sky stuff. Burnley are just not an attractive investment. I reiterate that they are not a guarantee of wise stewardship, either. Forget Portsmouth and R*vers, look at Hull, Cardiff, and Swansea.
For me it involves taking more of a chance with the wage bill in the short term, and a more committed approach to youth decvelopment and Foreign Markets.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:45 pm

What do we need? I think we are only a CB and a number 10 short. Jay and Dawson would suit me

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:46 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Some kids find it hard to wait until Xmas morning for their presents.

There would be a massive amount of egg on faces if we bought 3 players at £20million each

Completely wrong - I believe there will be a lot of "thank **** for that"

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:47 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:It doesn’t include Foreign Investment, as I think that’s Pie in the Sky stuff. Burnley are just not an attractive investment. I reiterate that they are not a guarantee of wise stewardship, either. Forget Portsmouth and R*vers, look at Hull, Cardiff, and Swansea.
For me it involves taking more of a chance with the wage bill in the short term, and a more committed approach to youth decvelopment and Foreign Markets.

Youth development is a massive thing. It’s criminal what has happened over the years!

Sadly I don’t see any way Of is being a top 30 team without foreign investment which tells a sad tale about English Football

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:47 pm

MRG wrote:What do we need? I think we are only a CB and a number 10 short. Jay and Dawson would suit me

Think we need a winger too. Regarding the number 10, I would personally have a more creative type than Jay, and Dawson ((supposedly)) has very high wage demands

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:49 pm

SGr wrote:Think we need a winger too. Regarding the number 10, I would personally have a more creative type than Jay, and Dawson ((supposedly)) has very high wage demands

I’m not too worried about a winger, I’d actually prioritise a LB over a winger.

Jay and Dawson are my choice simply because I think it’s now too late to search for new targets

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:49 pm

Fully agree with Vegas you need quality people in your recruitment team. In fact because of our overall resource v our peers they need to be better and more savvy. Just amazed that Ben Mee got injured with about 6 games to go last season and apart from Dunne the U23 centre- half we are no further in reinforcements. That was 4 months ago.

Though I have to say the message to "we may have to break the bank" I see as recognition that we need to pull our finger out and will make amends. Hers hoping

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:51 pm

MRG wrote:Youth development is a massive thing. It’s criminal what has happened over the years!

Sadly I don’t see any way Of is being a top 30 team without foreign investment which tells a sad tale about English Football

That’s as may be, and I largely agree with your sentiments, but until outside investment materialises, we are left with the way we are doing it. This has yeilded considerable rewards, thus far. It is also something which can be sustained(for a time at least) in the event of a probable relegation within the next few years. If that’s the best we can hope for in reality, then I’ll accept it. I have no other choice.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:51 pm

MRG wrote:I’m not too worried about a winger, I’d actually prioritise a LB over a winger.

Jay and Dawson are my choice simply because I think it’s now too late to search for new targets

Fair reasoning. Agree a left back needs to become a target

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:53 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:FFP is a sham

QPR just got fined 42 million for breaking FFP. However, the payment structure for that deal has been stretched to 10 years meaning QPR have to pay 4 million per year which is well within their financial planning per season. It's an absolute joke.

I called out off 1 poster today saying FFP didn’t apply to the PL, whether that falls under the profit & sustainability umbrella ruling I don’t know, 2 of the same kind to me it’s ambiguous. The flexibility regarding payment plans (eg qpr) remains a controversy within itself I assume it’s dealt with by a tribunal.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:53 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:That’s as may be, and I largely agree with your sentiments, but until outside investment materialises, we are left with the way we are doing it. This has yeilded considerable rewards, thus far. It is also something which can be sustained(for a time at least) in the event of a probable relegation within the next few years. If that’s the best we can hope for in reality, then I’ll accept it. I have no other choice.

Would you support the club actively seeking foreign investment? That what I think I would like the club to do. I can’t believe these words are coming out of my mouth because I’ve been such an advocate for ‘fan ownership’ but I think I’ve finally come to the conclusion that it will ultimately see us being left behind

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:55 pm

MRG wrote:Would you support the club actively seeking foreign investment? That what I think I would like the club to do. I can’t believe these words are coming out of my mouth because I’ve been such an advocate for ‘fan ownership’ but I think I’ve finally come to the conclusion that it will ultimately see us being left behind

I’m not against it, per se, but I would be very wary of it. Very wary indeed.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:55 pm

SGr wrote:Fair reasoning. Agree a left back needs to become a target

Unless Taylor can step up this season!

Let’s see what happens over the next week!

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:55 pm

Wouldn't worry too much about Dawson's wage demands.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:55 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:I called out off 1 poster today saying FFP didn’t apply to the PL, whether that falls under the profit & sustainability umbrella ruling I don’t know, 2 of the same kind to me it’s ambiguous. The flexibility regarding payment plans (eg qpr) remains a controversy within itself I assume it’s dealt with by a tribunal.

Not 100% sure who decided the structuring of the payment but the interview I heard indicating it was organised between the FA and QPR as they didn't want QPR to close down !!

Sooner the FA impose point deductions rather than fines the sooner it will stop - until then it's a pointless exercise

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:56 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:I’m not against it, per se, but I would be very wary of it. Very wary indeed.

One thing for certain, I’m glad I’m not the one making these decisions

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:58 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:But every one of them can be relegated.

We've been there before and learned that we need to include relegation clauses in player contracts. Combined with 4 years of parachute payments, this is not a reason to not sign good players.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:It doesn’t include Foreign Investment, as I think that’s Pie in the Sky stuff. Burnley are just not an attractive investment. I reiterate that they are not a guarantee of wise stewardship, either. Forget Portsmouth and R*vers, look at Hull, Cardiff, and Swansea.
For me it involves taking more of a chance with the wage bill in the short term, and a more committed approach to youth decvelopment and Foreign Markets.

I think we're still predicating tbis argument on the presumption its the wages that are part of the problem. I dont see anything in the whispers around Rodriguez, Dawson or Mawson that particularly supports that.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pm

MRG wrote:What do we need? I think we are only a CB and a number 10 short. Jay and Dawson would suit me

Midfielder. The frankly overated Defour spends most of his time injured, can never get him on the pitch consistently.

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:Also, reagarding Huddersfield and Brighton, neither have the looming prospect of expensive ground renovation on the horizon. Our ground is badly in need of at least two new stands. Without inheriting a purpose built stadium(Hudds) of having one built by a rich fan(BHA), we have to raise the money for that investment.

The club have made no suggestion for over 6 years that they intend any sort of major ground redevelopment. That used to be the first goal of promotion but was jettisoned long ago.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:04 pm

I think our expectations have grown the better we do (naturally) to the point where spending loads of money is required to get what we want.

I like many of you are frustrated at our lack of business. It’s seems we shop in one market with a penchant for previously links players and former players.

There has to be more players out there other than Jay Rodriguez and Craig bloody Dawson. There has to be similar players out there. I think our search becomes too narrow, sometimes you have to make sacrifices to your filters.

There’s still time for Burnley to pull something out of the bag though.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:04 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Midfielder. The frankly overated Defour spends most of his time injured, can never get him on the pitch consistently.

Bring a number 10 in and we can drop Hendrick back into the middle. I think we have other priorities

expoultryboy · Post by **expoultryboy** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:06 pm

Overated Defour !!!!

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:07 pm

MRG wrote:One thing for certain, I’m glad I’m not the one making these decisions

Amen to that, brother.

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:07 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Midfielder. The frankly overated Defour spends most of his time injured, can never get him on the pitch consistently.

Overrated Defour

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:08 pm

MRG wrote:Bring a number 10 in and we can drop Hendrick back into the middle. I think we have other priorities

We have but it was in response to what we need in addition to JR and Dawson, or similar. If we’re only signing two players then, yeah, agreed - other priorities.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:09 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Unlikely to be a problem specific to Burnley, Paul, as pretty much all clubs outside the top six now stipulate relegation clauses within contracts. Hence when West Brom were relegated JayRod's salary reduced significantly to a point that he became affordable to us.

Fair enough, but we know how risk averse our board are, maybe our relegation clauses include a bigger drop in wages than the likes of Wolves, Fulham, Leicester etc with their wealthy backers.

I'm just trying to find a reason why we're struggling to get the targets over the line, because I don't believe that the board isn't making the money available for transfer fees and wages, unless it's just other clubs blowing us out of the water.

I do expect at least one of Dawson and Rodriguez to be Burnley players by the time the season kicks off.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:10 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Midfielder. The frankly overated Defour spends most of his time injured, can never get him on the pitch consistently.

The overrated Defour that many Clarets say is the best player they have seen in a Burnley shirt?

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Steddyman wrote:The club have made no suggestion for over 6 years that they intend any sort of major ground redevelopment. That used to be the first goal of promotion but was jettisoned long ago.

Be that as it may, the point remains that neither Huddersfield or Brighton(the two Clubs who’s player investment ours has been unfavourably compared to) have the looming prospect of serious ground investment in the post. We may not be immediately planning it, but it is an unavoidable problem on the near horizon. Any redevelopment will have to come from the same pot that the rest of our expenditure comes from; Club Profits.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:11 pm

MDWat wrote:Overrated Defour

Yeah, absolutely. Can never get him on the pitch on a regular basis and on the occasions we have he must have been subbed early in a significant percentage.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:11 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:We have but it was in response to what we need in addition to JR and Dawson, or similar. If we’re only signing two players then, yeah, agreed - other priorities.

Sorry for the confusion pal. I think it will be down to what we can get in. I think we will be having what we can not what we want

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:15 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Yeah, absolutely. Can never get him on the pitch on a regular basis and on the occasions we have he must have been subbed early in a significant percentage.

Defour is worth the admission fee alone when he plays. Joy to watch

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:20 pm

Let's go hell for leather and get a few in like Van der Shaftedus or Jelle 'whereishe'Vossen maybe.

We might not want them but hey, at least we can make all you Sky Sports News Transfer Centre addicts happy.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:20 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Not 100% sure who decided the structuring of the payment but the interview I heard indicating it was organised between the FA and QPR as they didn't want QPR to close down !!

Sooner the FA impose point deductions rather than fines the sooner it will stop - until then it's a pointless exercise

If the money is distributed into grassroots football I'd disagree, I'm assuming the money is kept by the FA & god knows what the fines are spent on, upkeep of the FA I should imagine or maybe that's naive or maybe jollies & xmas shindigs ect, guess it's transparent if you're privy in the inner circle.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:22 pm

JohnMac wrote:Let's go hell for leather and get a few in like Van der Shaftedus or Jelle 'whereishe'Vossen maybe.

We might not want them but hey, at least we can make all you Sky Sports News Transfer Centre addicts happy.

What a silly post.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:Sounds to me like the funds just aren't there for him to get his main targets, I'm sure he's just as frustrated as we are.

I've never been LESS Frustrated.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:17 am

We may as well just buy one really good player for £60m rather than signing none.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/kalidou-k ... eler/93128" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This bloke looks alright.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:47 am

ksrclaret wrote:I think we’ll find it a hell of a lot easier to recruit when Dyche eventually leaves.

I get the impression this is true.

It's not a good thing. But it's probably true.

Quality always shines through.

We've not done too badly with Dyche in charge, IMHO.