Labour Party set to purge and deselect rebellious MPs

[Lancasterclaret]

I would agree with you it it was only one criminal conviction!

And Wexford, come off it

[Wexford_Claret]

[Stayingup]

As Bob Dylan said.

You unpatriotic dirty rotten commie rat.

Sums up McDonnell and Corbyn the odious bastards

[Stayingup]

Looks like my post was deleted so.Ill try again.

Bob Dylan had some great words.

You unpatriotic dirty rotten commie rat.

Sums up.perfectly the odious McDonnell and Corbyn. The millionaire commies who know sweet FA about what real labour stands for.

[Chobulous]

Only one thing holding the party back, and that’s the MPs who fail to get behind the leadership and the members that elected them.

Maybe those MPs remember another MP who spent his whole career failing to get behind the leadership

[AndrewJB]

Correction Andy, i used to think that the UK has no danger of falling in a far right or far left government.

Everything that we stand for, absolutely everything has been turned on its head in the last few years, though I do admit the possibility is still very low.

For what it is worth, it is very complacent to think that the current actions of JC and his cronies are not worrying (and yes, exactly the same could be said of the other lot).

I largely agree (but it would be boring if I completely agreed).

I think one place where we disagree is in our definition of what 'far left' is. To me 'far left' goes along with the abolition of private property and the free market. If Labour is now 'far left' what term do we use to describe the vast space to the left of where they actually are? Honest question.

Not sure how much you'd agree on this, but my take on the rise of politics outside the mainstream is that 'centre' politics has failed to deal with the problems of today. In my opinion there is no other reason for people to desert popular 'centre' parties and move to the right or the left. It's not that people or things that have changed, but the political centre of politics has been nudged ever to the right since Thatcher came along, and over time the economy has created more victims and served fewer people.

What I consider to be 'good' is that Labour has responded to this (or more correctly, Labour's membership has responded to this) by changing. Labour are no longer a 'less right wing' alternative to the Tories, but offer a very different and (for me and many others) more positive alternative. I don't blame minorities, or immigrants, or poor people, or the disabled, or the unemployed, or the sick, or British people, and certainly not socialism for the problems we have; like much of our press do. This is why I haven't been moved to support the far right.

When it comes to Corbyn, I can understand some people seeing and distrusting populism. But populism itself is neutral. For every Napoleon or Stalin you have a Garibaldi or De Gaulle. Those who seek power for their own ends, or those who just want to serve their country. There are a lot of tell tale signs of whether the person is a good or a bad egg. Is he willing to use violence against people? Napoleon's "whiff of grapeshot" or Trump's "beat up the protesters" Is she scapegoating a minority, or created an external threat? Perhaps most telling is how does the country's establishment react to him? Trump stoked hatred and division on his way to power, with taking away people's rights and liberties a central platform. Corbyn has provoked blind fury from the establishment, but never once made a threat back. He talks about ending austerity and increasing worker's rights. He talks about making his party and the country more democratic. There's nothing there to suggest a tyrant.

[Lancasterclaret]

Got to take the youngest to school but I'll draft a better reply when I get back but I think the bit you refuse to see is that Corbyn has flaws, and those flaws could well turn him into exactly what you say he isn't.

[Lancasterclaret]

My definition of "far left" isn't Corbyn, and it isn't McDonnell, and it isn't Abbot, just like my definition of far right isn't May, and it isn't Johnson, and it isn't Javid.

Last elections Labour manifesto was pretty good, certainly better than the alternative.

I love the idea of political parties following the members decisions (caveat below though!)

If Labour decides on mandatory reselection, then I hope its on the right basis and for the right reasons.

I was impressed at how Labour managed to do so well in the last election despite the massive Conservative poll lead (another caveat below!)

BUT

JC has some very strong opinions, opinions that are not shared by his members. Does he drop them and not go on about them anymore? No, he believes he can convince people that he's correct. Not that he might be wrong, but that he's correct. He believes that the majority of members of the Labour party are wrong and people who disagree with him are slowly being removed. That doesn't end well and its ridiculous because a Labour that is made up of a very "broad church" is electable. One based on a pure left ideology, and with the likes of McDonnell, Abbott and Williamson in key roles won't win an election in this country (just as one in the Conservatives made up of Rees-Mogg and Iain Duncan-Smith wouldn't)

Labour has acted quickly to suspend the bloke who let Iranian TV film a de-selection meeting, acted quickly to support the MP in Canterbury, has started to suspend the most blatant anti-semitic members (Bye Ken, and please stop talking about Hitler) but the problem remains and I think Cholobous nailed it further up with JC view on this.

Speaking personally, I voted Lab in the last election, mainly because I know I couldn't vote Lib Dem in my constituency as there was no chance of a Lib Dem win. My main issue was Brexit, and AT THE TIME Labour were a better bet for a sensible one than the Conservatives.

But Lab did really well. No one is 100% sure of why that was, but its clearly a combination of a desire to kick the government, Hopeless Conservative policies and the worst manifesto in living memory and a big anti-Brexit vote (tactical voting).

What it did do was strengthen JC position, and since then its been a creeping campaign within labour against his opponents which I'm not keen on for the reasons posted above. There are lots of other things that Lab could and should be concentrating on at the moment.

I remain of the fear that a very disorderly Brexit suits the likes of Corbyn and (for balance) the ERG because if it does go tits up (and it looks like it is going to do so) then they see a chance in the political and economic meltdown to put in place their visions for the future of the UK. I fear both visions will make things worse.

*Apologies for being a bit rambling btw!

[If it be your will]

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[AndrewJB]

My definition of "far left" isn't Corbyn, and it isn't McDonnell, and it isn't Abbot, just like my definition of far right isn't May, and it isn't Johnson, and it isn't Javid.

Last elections Labour manifesto was pretty good, certainly better than the alternative.

I love the idea of political parties following the members decisions (caveat below though!)

If Labour decides on mandatory reselection, then I hope its on the right basis and for the right reasons.

I was impressed at how Labour managed to do so well in the last election despite the massive Conservative poll lead (another caveat below!)

BUT

JC has some very strong opinions, opinions that are not shared by his members. Does he drop them and not go on about them anymore? No, he believes he can convince people that he's correct. Not that he might be wrong, but that he's correct. He believes that the majority of members of the Labour party are wrong and people who disagree with him are slowly being removed. That doesn't end well and its ridiculous because a Labour that is made up of a very "broad church" is electable. One based on a pure left ideology, and with the likes of McDonnell, Abbott and Williamson in key roles won't win an election in this country (just as one in the Conservatives made up of Rees-Mogg and Iain Duncan-Smith wouldn't)

Labour has acted quickly to suspend the bloke who let Iranian TV film a de-selection meeting, acted quickly to support the MP in Canterbury, has started to suspend the most blatant anti-semitic members (Bye Ken, and please stop talking about Hitler) but the problem remains and I think Cholobous nailed it further up with JC view on this.

Speaking personally, I voted Lab in the last election, mainly because I know I couldn't vote Lib Dem in my constituency as there was no chance of a Lib Dem win. My main issue was Brexit, and AT THE TIME Labour were a better bet for a sensible one than the Conservatives.

But Lab did really well. No one is 100% sure of why that was, but its clearly a combination of a desire to kick the government, Hopeless Conservative policies and the worst manifesto in living memory and a big anti-Brexit vote (tactical voting).

What it did do was strengthen JC position, and since then its been a creeping campaign within labour against his opponents which I'm not keen on for the reasons posted above. There are lots of other things that Lab could and should be concentrating on at the moment.

I remain of the fear that a very disorderly Brexit suits the likes of Corbyn and (for balance) the ERG because if it does go tits up (and it looks like it is going to do so) then they see a chance in the political and economic meltdown to put in place their visions for the future of the UK. I fear both visions will make things worse.

*Apologies for being a bit rambling btw!

Meant to like this rather than the school run one. Small phone.

Fair enough, and more nuanced than: “he’s a peacenik terror lover”

One area where Corbyn has had to acquiesce to the party as a whole holding a different view is with Britain’s nuclear weapons. He’s strongly opposed, but it’s Labour policy to keep them.

[If it be your will]

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[Imploding Turtle]

On a day the Conservatives voted with a blatantly antisemitic Hungarian government https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ngary-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , the Jewish Chronicle headlines with More than 85 per cent of British Jews think Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic https://www.thejc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyway, Rabbi Sacks was speaking in the Lords today. As we know, he considers Enoch Powell to be similar to Corbyn, so he must have positively exploded at what the Conservative Party did today:

Antisemitism, or any hate, become dangerous when three things happen. First: when it moves from the fringes of politics to a mainstream party and its leadership. Second: when the party sees that its popularity with the general public is not harmed thereby. And three: when those who stand up and protest are vilified and abused for doing so. All three factors exist in Britain now. I never thought I would see this in my lifetime. That is why I cannot stay silent. For it is not only Jews who are at risk. So too is our humanity.

I suppose it's possible he was talking about Theresa May, I guess.

Imagine how much news coverage this would have got had it been Labour MEPs. You know, the supposedly left-wing media that barely acknowledged this from he Conservatives.

[Lancasterclaret]

To be fair, its got quite a lot.

It just so desperately poor that both Lab and the Conservatives have issues like this.

And a quickie, if you link the canary and squarkbox as "news sites", then you all the right wing ones like Guido Fawkes come into the same category. No one wants that surely?

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

Right, so you want media to be less biased but are happy to count squawkbox, the canary and Guido Fawkes as credible news sites?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Can't see anything wrong with that at all.

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

I would agree completely if it wasn't covered by the BBC, or Sky, or ITV, or whoever.

I definitely saw if reported on the BBC website.

I think one of the main reasons I believe why the BBC isn't biased is that everyone thinks it is to be honest.

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

Not disagreeing with it being completely wrong.

If you want to keep thinking that the anti-semitism in the Labour party is a smear campaign, then it will continue to kill you at elections.

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

No, because it wouldn't be accurate.

If it was an isolated case, it would be a smear campaign.

As it isn't, its called reporting.

Do squawkbox and the canary report these incidents btw?

[Lancasterclaret]

JOB on about this now by the way if you fancy a listen.

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

LBC

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

This is good on the anti-semitic thing (amongst others) with that MP in Canterbury.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ocal-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[If it be your will]

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[claretandy]

JOB on about this now by the way if you fancy a listen.

Trying to row back from attacking Corbyn so that the Corbynistas he's upset will buy his book.

[Imploding Turtle]

Trying to row back from attacking Corbyn so that the Corbynistas he's upset will buy his book.

One of the dumber things you've posted.

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

Can you not read or something?

I totally think its ******* appalling what the tories have done with Orban and his bunch of fascists.

That doesn't change anything about anti-semitism in the Labour party does it?

Both main parties have massive issues with this. Thats what those of us who don't back either side can clearly see.

[If it be your will]

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[tiger76]

Mark Serwotka isn't helping Labour with these comments https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45517094

[claretandy]

One of the dumber things you've posted.

Truth hurts, Corbynistas loved him until he started attacking him, who else is going to buy his book ?

[bluelabrador16]

Gilad Atzmon

"I wonder, why the Zionists bodies and the chief rabbis want to stop this man? Is it because he offers tikun olam?"

C0RBYNAT0R

"The PM is not challenging the burning injustices in our society,she's pouring petrol on the crisis!"
-1 million families using foodbanks
-1 million workers of 0 hrs contracts
-4 million children in poverty
& the PM wants to put 2 million more people on to Universal Credit?"

[Lancasterclaret]

You posted that without my comment afterwards which **** poor AND dishonest.

You won't accept that anti-semitism is an issue in the labour party. That is your issue, I have no idea what your motivation is for that.

That is as bad as the tories telling everyone that they voted for Orban because its the EU interfering in countries internal affairs.

[Jakubclaret]

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/more ... c-1.469654" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If that's bias I'm not sure what is! Doesn't appear to be any mention of other faiths opinions on the subject, similar to asking the Muslim population if they think Tommy Robinson is islamaphophic, double standards rearing it's ugly head again.

[If it be your will]

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[android]

False equivalence IIBYW. The EU vote was not a vote in favour of the Hungarian government as you are simplistically trying to portray. Seems some MEPS took the view that seeking to disenfranchise a democratically elected govt of a member state is not the way to tackle them.

Extraordinary that you are still claiming Labour's anti-Semitism problem is mainly a smear.