#politicslive

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:37 am

The tory party needs to be very careful. Ditto Labour. Farage last night suggested that a new party is about to be launched to fight any euro elections in may. The brexit party. It would likely send 70 odd Farages to frustrate Juncker etl. Add this to god knows what from eastern europe, france and Italy and it will be a very different situation.

Cameron's referendum was to see off UKIP once and for all. He and his establishment cohorts have done that but may have enabled a much more broad and reasonable brexit party.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:49 am

I'm comfortably with the prospect of Farage in politics again.

Once the spotlight is back on him, he's toast. Only the seriously deluded still believe his "Man of the people" stuff now surely?

And as the man himself mentioned, he's probably too much of a moderate for the absolute loons who used to hang on to his every word.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:57 am

You might be but such a new party would have a good chance of winning burnley and plenty of other seats in the north, Midlands and east if a proper brexit does not happen. In particular if we don't control our own borders. I have never voted ukip, but would be likely to vote for a broad based brexit party if we don't leave properly.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:59 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm comfortably with the prospect of Farage in politics again.

Once the spotlight is back on him, he's toast. Only the seriously deluded still believe his "Man of the people" stuff now surely?

And as the man himself mentioned, he's probably too much of a moderate for the absolute loons who used to hang on to his every word.

In the Euro elections, you're voting for parties, not individuals. As long as the party is not seen to be unelectable, they can get lots of votes - and Farage's party will. Brexiteers can vote freely for the Brexit party (or whatever) without having to consider other impacts like whether they prefer Corbyn or May.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:02 pm

Presumably no one has an issue with voting for MEPs who believe that the EU is an "unelected dictatorship" to sit in the decision making parliament of the, er, "unelected dictatorship" then?

Fine

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:14 pm

I want MEPs that will challenge the EU and in particular the EC.

My point goes way beyond the euros. Its 2 main parties control of local and national government that will be challenged.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:16 pm

Part of the problem is that the main parties have been happy to reinforce the idea that the EU Parliament doesn't do anything.

Remember that its always easy to blame the EU.

Enjoy the remaining sixty odd days of dong that before reality hits and we have to start blaming ourselves.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:21 pm

The people to blame if there is no deal will be Grieve, Greening and Sourby etl.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:24 pm

You keep believing that mate. Whatever gets you through the day.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:42 pm

Another high profile business threatening to pull out of the UK...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46984229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:44 pm

I'm concentrating on the ones who have actually pulled out.

Bit hard to go "Bah! Project Fear" when its actually happened

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:48 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Presumably no one has an issue with voting for MEPs who believe that the EU is an "unelected dictatorship" to sit in the decision making parliament of the, er, "unelected dictatorship" then?

Fine

Look on it as an anti-EU protest vote. It's not as if abstaining will mean there are any fewer MEPs.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:51 pm

What's dodgy contraception got to do with Brexit ?

https://www.bedsider.org/features/310-5 ... out-busted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:55 pm

bfcjg wrote:What's dodgy contraception got to do with Brexit ?
https://www.bedsider.org/features/310-5 ... out-busted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

its because we're being f#cked

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:56 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Another high profile business threatening to pull out of the UK...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46984229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ironic, really, since aircraft components are one area that we are already tariff-free by under WTO rules. The UK is already a signatory to the Agreement on Trade in Civil Aircraft agreement that means trade between 32 countries, including Britain and the EU, is already tariff free.

Airbus are upset about disruption of supply if there is chaos at the borders (according to that article). So all the UK has to do is make sure there isn't chaos at the borders, and they're happy.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:16 pm

According to the express a trade deal has been agreed in principle with Israel. Labour will love that.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:14 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:In two years, the EU hasn't blinked.

They are not going to blink. Its not them who need to blink.

This is on us. It is our decision. We have to make one that gives the EU some wiggle room. Demanding that the back stop has a short (and more importantly unrealistic) time scale helps no one except the internal wranglings of the Conservative Party (Just how many times does this keep having to be mentioned?)

Thread on the backstop, cracks are showing.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/ ... 8845292544" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:18 pm

He's got quite of lot of distance from a couple of lines of the speech to be fair.

And the Telegraph have lost absolutely all credibility over Brexit sadly. I'm not saying he's wrong btw, I'm saying that he's immediately linked it to the ERG demand for no need for the backstop.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:28 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Another high profile business threatening to pull out of the UK...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46984229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like the government put them up to it, project fear is alive and kicking.

https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/ ... 5828168704" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:32 pm

Its actually scary just how many of you are in denial about "Project Reality" it has to be said.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:He's got quite of lot of distance from a couple of lines of the speech to be fair.

And the Telegraph have lost absolutely all credibility over Brexit sadly. I'm not saying he's wrong btw, I'm saying that he's immediately linked it to the ERG demand for no need for the backstop.

Did you watch the video ? he skewered the EU spokesman, if Barnier says they can do checks away from the border to avoid a hard border then why do they need a backstop ?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:35 pm

Like I said, the telegraph is the propaganda wing of the ERG.

And I know you think the EU is a superstate ruled by the likes of Michael Barneir but it isn't, just like the bloke yesterday who said it would become a hard border was an official EU spokesperson, there are different interpretations out there depending on what you read and who is saying it.

At the moment, the backstop is EU policy and it would be much more sensible for us to accept that and negotiate on the timescale of it, because there is room for movement there.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:45 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Like I said, the telegraph is the propaganda wing of the ERG.

And I know you think the EU is a superstate ruled by the likes of Michael Barneir but it isn't, just like the bloke yesterday who said it would become a hard border was an official EU spokesperson, there are different interpretations out there depending on what you read and who is saying it.

At the moment, the backstop is EU policy and it would be much more sensible for us to accept that and negotiate on the timescale of it, because there is room for movement there.

There main Europe reporter, Peter Foster is literally a paid, EU shill.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:46 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its actually scary just how many of you are in denial about "Project Reality" it has to be said.

So Airbus' own spokeswoman says "yeah the Government told us to say it" and that's being in denial ?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:58 pm

AndyClaret wrote:So Airbus' own spokeswoman says "yeah the Government told us to say it" and that's being in denial ?

She was asked to be honest, and was

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:10 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:She was asked to be honest, and was

So them saying "we're leaving if there's no deal"of there own volition isn't true, glad we've clarified that.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:15 pm

AndyClaret wrote:So them saying "we're leaving if there's no deal"of there own volition isn't true, glad we've clarified that.

sorry, you've lost me...

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:17 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:sorry, you've lost me...

Indeed....

You posted the link to the bbc article about them threatening to leave, it turns out the government told them to do it.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:23 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Indeed....

You posted the link to the bbc article about them threatening to leave, it turns out the government told them to do it.

you're being deliberately dumb, or you dont understand what has happened (and is happening in this country in the event of Brexit). Airbus have stated that they are considering leaving in the event of a no deal Brexit (and that it is likely to happen) - that statement is true. The fact that the government asked them to be clear about it, i.e. honest, is almost irrelevant to the fact that Airbus has stated that in the event of a no deal they are considering leaving.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:20 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:you're being deliberately dumb, or you dont understand what has happened (and is happening in this country in the event of Brexit). Airbus have stated that they are considering leaving in the event of a no deal Brexit (and that it is likely to happen) - that statement is true. The fact that the government asked them to be clear about it, i.e. honest, is almost irrelevant to the fact that Airbus has stated that in the event of a no deal they are considering leaving.

It's you who is being dumb, the government got Airbus to engage in project fear, and you fell for it, again.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:23 pm

AndyClaret wrote:It's you who is being dumb, the government got Airbus to engage in project fear, and you fell for it, again.

Whatever mate - we'll agree to disagree then eh..?

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:44 pm

'project reality' and 'project fear' could well be the same thing!

Farage does appeal to a lot of people. let us say that it 's mainly people of the right wing persuasion. let's say it's mainly people with lower education levels. mainly Brexiteers. how could that lot possibly succeed? if Farage delivers a message that resonates with these voters who's to say what might happen? it might just be that these people, in actual fact, represent the majority of the electorate! don't write him off simply because you hate him and disagree, vehemently with his politics.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:58 pm

Whatever you think if him, he was thd main reason why leave won.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:03 pm

biggles wrote:'project reality' and 'project fear' could well be the same thing!

They are. The same situation from different viewpoints.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:04 pm

You say that like its something he should be proud about

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:26 pm

They are all at it now. Just as there might be a chink in the EU, the cabinet remainers are trying to stop a deal with a limited backstop by calling for n0 deal to be ruled out now.

The political declaration allows the battle for the type of trade deal to be fought after we leave. Why can't they just shut up.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:05 pm

AndyClaret wrote:It's you who is being dumb, the government got Airbus to engage in project fear, and you fell for it, again.

What are Airbus getting in return for lying to their customers for the govt.?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:09 pm

The chance of remain. Doh! They don't care about what working people think.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:15 pm

summitclaret wrote:The chance of remain. Doh! They don't care about what working people think.

And why do you think they want the chance of remain?

Edit - and are you really suggesting that all working people voted leave? Or that the CEO of Airbus isn’t a working person?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:28 pm

Money money money.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:35 pm

I'm as working class as they get. My mum is an ex cotton weaver. I live in a terraced house.

I voted remain.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:46 pm

summitclaret wrote:Money money money.

Money to pay their 14,000 UK employees with, you mean? Do they count as working people?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:39 pm

There will be a deal. It just needs people like Sourby whose area voted leave to stop being prats.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:05 pm

: IMG_20190124_220336.jpg (285.53 KiB) Viewed 2355 times

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:35 pm

The Telegraph reporting tomorrow that the EU are now imploding over the backstop, following the cracks which opened when the Commission spokesman said earlier in the week there would have to be a hard border, leading to fury in Dublin.

Now Barnier is suggesting something which sounds like Max Fac, the David Davis plan originally. Who would ever have guessed? Well, it wasn’t rocket science.

By having the balls to vote down May’s deal so heavily, the Brexiteers have put huge pressure on the EU who could now agree to something that gets Boris and the Brexiteers to vote for it.

So what was (broadly) agreed on here last month, which was that May’s deal is now the best we could do, sounds like it could happen. There will be some twists and turns yet, but I always felt her deal would pass eventually, and I still think that.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:02 am

Anyone read the Ivan Rogers speech linked the other day on this thread? It should be a must read for everyone in government right now.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:57 am

No trade deals that will replace EU ones signed yet.

Super

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46949431" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:03 am

The reality of WTO

James Delingpole getting absolutely, totally rinsed by the most basic point about WTO. This guy though will be on numerous media outlets though and will continue to tell people that WTO is a viable option.

https://twitter.com/ladyhaja/status/1088594193054879744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:09 am

Watched it - he was a complete embarrassment. Could not answer even the most basic of questions.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:11 am

You just hope that the various media outlets intensify their questions about WTO to those who are passionately in favour of it.

The amount of people on here who clearly don't have a clue what it actually means AND who think its the best option is genuinely frightening.