Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[RingoMcCartney]

Well who are you talking about then. The PM came back with a deal, it was voted down by MPs who support reamian and leave. Which MPs so you think are stopping us getting a deal that meets all of the PMs and the EUs red lines?

"Massive cross-party consensus"

Remoaner speak for " we're all working tirelessly, regardless of party, to stop Brexit and help to save those uneducated plebs from themselves"

[RingoMcCartney]

You going to change your tune ringo or are you going to get even more unhinged about this?

E-mail the ERG and tell them to accept Mays deal, and this never happens.

What are you wasting time on here for?

Stop swerving .



Where in the labour or tory manifestos did it say the respective parties would offer a second referendum BEFORE the first was implemented.?

[Lancasterclaret]

You are wasting away precious hours for your Brexit Ringo

There are 70 odd ERG MPs

Get e-mailing!

And we want to see the evidence!

[aggi]

And back on the no-deal "planning"

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... ?r=US&IR=T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RingoMcCartney]

You are wasting away precious hours for your Brexit Ringo

There are 70 odd MPs

Get e-mailing!

And we want to see the evidence!

Youre right so ill stop asking you the question.

Past experience shows me that when you are asked a question you're not comfortable with, you swerve , Bob and weave and say anything other than answer , what is only a simple question.

Fair enough.......

[martin_p]

"Massive cross-party consensus"

Remoaner speak for " we're all working tirelessly, regardless of party, to stop Brexit and help to save those uneducated plebs from themselves"

I never mentioned parties, just leave and remain. Come on, which MPs are stopping a Brexit that meets both the PMs and the EUs red lines?

[Bobzuruncle]

This whole thing reminds me of a 70’s series of The Tomorrow People called “The Blues and the Greens” - somebody is profiting from this near 50-50 split of opposition and anger.

[martin_p]

Stop swerving .



Where in the labour or tory manifestos did it say the respective parties would offer a second referendum BEFORE the first was implemented.?

It’s a complete red herring. Throughout history things have happened in politics that weren’t in election manifestos. Politics has to react to what is going on in the world, not stick to something that seemed sensible two years ago if it no longer makes sense.

[Lancasterclaret]

No swerving at all Ringo

We've all been talking on here to you for two years. When you are angry or make a stupid point, you hang on grimly and try to change the subject or stick to the same point till everyone gives up.

Your Brexit isn't going to happen, but Brexit will, if the ERG vote for Mays deal.

You need to accept this, and get e-mailing those ERG MPs or you are going to have a 2nd ref which might well result in nothing at all from a Brexit point of view.

Up to you!

Just how much do you really want Brexit?

Now is your time to shine!

[RingoMcCartney]

I never mentioned parties, just leave and remain. Come on, which MPs are stopping a Brexit that meets both the PMs and the EUs red lines?

If you don't want to accept something that most people can see, that there is a majority of MP'S of ALL PARTIES, that voted remain and simply don't accept the result of the referendum. That's entirely your prerogative marty.

[aggi]

I'm sure someone on here was very vociferous about the fact that losing parties manifestos mean nothing. I just can't quite remember who that poster was.

[Burnley Ace]

This whole thing reminds me of a 70’s series of The Tomorrow People called “The Blues and the Greens”.

1974! the best Tomorrow People storyline!! There was a bit of Stanford Experiment involved.

[RingoMcCartney]

No swerving at all Ringo

We've all been talking on here to you for two years. When you are angry or make a stupid point, you hang on grimly and try to change the subject or stick to the same point till everyone gives up.

Your Brexit isn't going to happen, but Brexit will, if the ERG vote for Mays deal.

You need to accept this, and get e-mailing those ERG MPs or you are going to have a 2nd ref which might well result in nothing at all from a Brexit point of view.

Up to you!

Just how much do you really want Brexit?

Now is your time to shine!

You're right I've wasting hours today.

So this is my last post today.

Do labour or tory MPS have an electoral mandate to call for a 2nd referendum?

Yes



Or



No?

[Lancasterclaret]

Yes

Because the alternative is a "No Deal"

Which was not what was voted for in 2016.

Your Brexit is slipping away Ringo, time to save what you can and get e-mailing!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

An almost perfect distillation of how (some) brexiters think, there.

And when you point it out, all the snowflakes go...

I'm definitely not a snowflake.

[Darthlaw]

I'm sure someone on here was very vociferous about the fact that losing parties manifestos mean nothing. I just can't quite remember who that poster was.

Whether that poster was right or wrong, does it entitle said losing party to renege on commitments made just because they lost. Realistically as no individual party won in the most recent GE, does this entitle the party in government carte Blanche on running the country?

I’ve an idea - let’s have a by election on all Labour seats as the public who voted them in ‘didnt Know what they were voting for’.

[Lancasterclaret]

Christ, every Brexiteer is proper losing their **** here.

E-mail the ERG.

Brexit gets done.

Its ****, but its not as **** as a "No Deal".

Just get on with it!

[RingoMcCartney]

I'm sure someone on here was very vociferous about the fact that losing parties manifestos mean nothing. I just can't quite remember who that poster was.

Only the party that wins a general election has its manifesto enacted into law and legislation. However, MPS are returned to parliament based on the manifesto on which they stood as a candidate. That's why it says their name and their party on the ballot paper.

Or are you supporting the idea that you should be able to be elected on , say a liberal Democrat manifesto then, once elected act on behalf of your constituents, based on the manifesto pledges of the BNP?

You have an odd way of understanding how democracy and the electoral process works aggi.

[Darthlaw]

Lancaster you’re reminding me of the office when Steve Carrell is screaming calm down at everyone, whilst they look on calm.

We’re in a ‘first one to blink’ scenario right now. Surely you can see that?

[RingoMcCartney]

Yes

Because the alternative is a "No Deal"

Which was not what was voted for in 2016.

Your Brexit is slipping away Ringo, time to save what you can and get e-mailing!

Yes!? Really!?

"Deal" or "no deal" was not on the ballot paper. Simply Leave or Remain.

So,

At which general election did they stand on a manifesto of having a 2nd referendum.

Did I miss the 2nd general election in 2017 or 2018 ?

When did they receive the mandate?

[randomclaret2]

You are sounding increasing hysterical Lancaster....and after lecturing folk about chilling out as well..

[RingoMcCartney]

Still listening to various radio stations re labours betrayal.

Lots of genuine anger and disillusionment , with ALL POLITICIANS, and DEMOCRACY ITSELF.

And yet the usual gaggle of UTC messageboard Remoaner are seeing it as something to celebrate.

Have a great rest of the day ladies.

[Lancasterclaret]

Not at all random.

I'm calmer than you lot.

I woke up this morning thinking this was now cut and dried. With Lab going for a 2nd ref, that would increase the chances of Mays deal passing to the extent it would be easy.

But then I remembered that this is Brexit, and one thing Brexiteers are not good at is accepting reality.

I never realised just how bad this has got, but I think you all actually believe that there is another deal out there that isn't Mays deal. I shouldn't be flabbergasted, but I am.

Just where are you lot getting your information from here?

Mays deal is the only Brexit that can pass.

Unless you think the millions will vote again in a 2nd ref for something that has looked increasingly iffy since the vote?

Risky at best that

[Burnley Ace]

Huff and puff all you like, and I notice you didn't want to argue the toss over the labour manifesto. Neither manifesto promised they would offer a second referendum BEFORE the first was implemented.?

It did NOT say that we would have to leave with a deal.

Both said theyd carry out the wishes of the British people as expressed in the referendum, leave the single market and customs, end free movement of people and end the jurisdiction of the ECJ. 

“Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first....We will end Theresa Mays reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the Country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain”

So whilst they accept the result they pledged to put the NI first. That means remain has alwaybeen an option if it is in the National Intrest.

Ending TM’s reckless approach and uniting the Country around a Brexit DEAL means that all Labour voters knew that no deal was never going to be an option and they voted for the “softest” of options.

Google “Labour Manifesto and Brexit” before you reply as I haven’t got the time to repeatedly correct you.

[Darthlaw]

Or the EU blink first, Lancaster and make some allowances.

[Lancasterclaret]

This might worth a read for you then Darth if that is your strategy

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status ... 5404829697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Darthlaw]

This might worth a read for you then Darth if that is your strategy

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status ... 5404829697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And who is he exactly? Or should I make up a tweet to counter his opinion?

[Lancasterclaret]

Your dream is dying, you are upset, I get that. So I'll stay polite

He's a trade negotiator who used to be with the WTO with experience of international trade.

I listen to him because he's been right over the past couple of years about stuff like this.

You could listen to Ringo though if you think he's a better bet though!

[Lancasterclaret]

Just reading about the pallet problem today.

We are so not ready for a "No Deal"

[Darthlaw]

Dmitry Grozoubinski was a trade negotiatior and used to work with the WTO. That is a twitter account with his name on that is not verified as being him.

Couldn’t you point me to a Wikipedia entry and pass it off as fact?

Schoolboy error that one Lancaster. I realise you’re in panic mode so that must be affecting your judgement.

[aggi]

I don't disagree that you'd expect the elected candidate to act in line with their manifesto (although I wouldn't be up furious if they did switch parties, vote against the whip or whatever; that's how the UK democratic process works, you vote for an individual to represent you, not a party).

It wasn't me arguing that manifestos of the losing parties were discarded after the election though.

[martin_p]

You're right I've wasting hours today.

So this is my last post today.

Wrongo cant even be right about himself!

[Rick_Muller]

Still listening to various radio stations re labours betrayal.

Lots of genuine anger and disillusionment , with ALL POLITICIANS, and DEMOCRACY ITSELF.

And yet the usual gaggle of UTC messageboard Remoaner are seeing it as something to celebrate.

Have a great rest of the day ladies.

Ringo - please stop referring to people who support another referendum as "remoaners", you may get a more valid response from others if you do. Oh, and typing in CAPS does nothing to add to your argument, especially cut and pasting the same stuff over and over, it doesn't add value to the discussion.

Your dream is dying, you are upset, I get that. So I'll stay polite

He's a trade negotiator who used to be with the WTO with experience of international trade.

I listen to him because he's been right over the past couple of years about stuff like this.

You could listen to Ringo though if you think he's a better bet though!

Lancaster - I understand your glee, but please dont keep goading Ringo and others you're just inflaming the argument which creates a tit-for-tat scenario which is no fun to follow.

[Billy Balfour]

BBC R5 say that May is going to give the HoC a vote on No Deal if her deal doesn't go through. If No Deal is rejected, which it will be, there will be a vote the next day to extend Article 50.

[Lancasterclaret]

hahahahahaha!

Right, whatever

He knows a lot more than me about this kind of thing.

But I forget that experts are not a thing when it comes to Brexit.

[RingoMcCartney]

Wrongo cant even be right about himself!

For once you're right.

I haven't signed off.

Jelly and ice cream for marty!

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo - please stop referring to people who support another referendum as "remoaners", you may get a more valid response from others if you do. Oh, and typing in CAPS does nothing to add to your argument, especially cut and pasting the same stuff over and over, it doesn't add value to the funw.

Remainers are people who voted remain.

Remoaners are people who don't accept the result of the biggest single expression of democracy the nation has ever witnessed.

I cut n paste cos people either ask the same question or make the same statement. Consequently the get the same reply.....

[Lancasterclaret]

None of us are managing to sign off here.

Stuff is changing too fast,

[Lancasterclaret]

Not sure that what TM is proposing helps that much.

Still needs EU approval, which is not guaranteed for this current cluster ****

[Billy Balfour]

So there we have it. May's deal or an extention of A50. Now it's up to the bellends in the ERG.

[Lancasterclaret]

She's deluded if she thinks that anything is going to unite the country.

Not sure she has done enough to fight off a rebellion here to be honest.

[RingoMcCartney]

I don't disagree that you'd expect the elected candidate to act in line with their manifesto (although I wouldn't be up furious if they did switch parties, vote against the whip or whatever; that's how the UK democratic process works, you vote for an individual to represent you, not a party).

It wasn't me arguing that manifestos of the losing parties were discarded after the election though.

You know as well as I do , that I said the losing parties manifestos are binned and only the winning party in a general election has its manifesto enacted. When Keighley claret attempted to use the argument "that after a general election the losing party doesn't pack up and stop campaigning, so why should the Remain side stop cos they lost the referendum"

And I pointed out that in a binary" once in a genetation" referendum, trying to continue to campaign to partly remain while leaving was like trying to be half pregnant.

On that argument I'm done.

[Lancasterclaret]

Plus point

No deal is dead.

[randomclaret2]

Referring to me as one of "you lot " Lancaster, just serves to prove to me that you dont know what you are talking about.

[Billy Balfour]

Plus point

No deal is dead.

Yep. Thank ****.

[Lancasterclaret]

You post about me on stuff you don't post anything else about.

I think I should let you know that I'm happily married (to a Brexiteer no less!)

[Lancasterclaret]

Course, how do we avoid "No Deal" without revoking Article 50?

[Billy Balfour]

Article 50 will be extended. This is what the ERG bellends have to consider if they aren't going to back May's Deal.

[Lowbankclaret]

As I understand what she just said, it was this.

She has made progress on changes.
This to be voted on the 12th March, if voted down. They would allow a vote on No deal on 29th March.
If that was voted down.
On the 13th there would be a vote to extend article 50 to June.

The vote would not remove No Deal altogether just delay it to June.


Hope that makes sense

[RingoMcCartney]

“Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first....We will end Theresa Mays reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the Country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain”

So whilst they accept the result they pledged to put the NI first. That means remain has alwaybeen an option if it is in the National Intrest.

Ending TM’s reckless approach and uniting the Country around a Brexit DEAL means that all Labour voters knew that no deal was never going to be an option and they voted for the “softest” of options.

Google “Labour Manifesto and Brexit” before you reply as I haven’t got the time to repeatedly correct you.

Their manifesto pledge was to leave the European Union. Full stop. It was literally in black and white. Where in the manifesto did it say remain will always be an option? How can you have remain as an option if you want to accept ( not respect) and crucially , help implement Leave.

And you're falling for the myth perpetuated by Remoaners that brexit was dependent on whether we had a deal or not.

The question on the ballot paper was Leave or Remain.

Deal or no Deal was not on the ballot paper.

The vast majority of MPs voted to have a referendum.

The vast majority of MPS stood on manifestos that pledged to leave the European Union.

The vast majority of MPS voted to trigger article 50. Which meant that in law, we leave the European Union on the 29th of March with or WITHOUT a deal.

That's what THEY voted for.

And now the majority from all parties are reneging on everything they've promised to deliver.

You , I expect, will disagree. It doesn't matter one jot.

There are millions out there that do. And the actions of a few hundred self righteous, duplicitous MPS is going to cause long term and permanently fracture trust in politicians and democracy itself.