Weghorst

[spt_claret]

You don't make Weghorst any better by pinpointing what you think Wood was poor at.
Wasn't it 10 or more PL goals 3 seasons running? Not bad at all.
They are so different. But if we are to change our football then maybe Weghorst will prove to be a great asset, unfortunately he's not too good at heading a football.

That's not what I did.
I said Wood in his prime was deceptively mobile, I said I don't subscribe to the negative revisionism and that he had an excellent goal record for us (albeit with a team very much built around him).
This was entirely about whether Weghorst is slow/immobile or not, I was arguing he's not, arguing examples of aspects of play to do with mobility (movement, link up, positioning, agility, etc.) as to why he's not and why he's more mobile than Wood.
I completely agree that in the air he's much weaker than Wood, and for a man of his size, poor in honesty. I've never argued that he's a heading based target man, because he's not and never has been.

[joey13]

Meaning what? He has only got 12 cps at his age, or he’s managed to get 12 caps for Holland who have been comfortably a match for England for most of that time?

Most of what time ?

[BabylonClaret]

Holland haven't been a "good" side for ages

[joey13]

Why does he need to be quick to be effective though? Crouch wasn't quick either, look at his goal scoring record.

Crouch could use his head though , no ?

[joey13]

He's a technically apt and capable of link play, yet still very much outright striker in a national side that hasn't regularly played with such sorts of striker in years, his main competition in that role has been Luuk de Jong who is a very good player.
He's a very good player who doesn't entirely fit the Dutch national style- something people like Van Basten have commented on- and who definitely doesn't fit our style when we are missing key personnel- 2 injured 1 dropped- who enabled us to play to his strengths.
He was linked with Spurs as Kane's replacement, and with Arsenal before that (who from what I hear mostly concluded that while good enough he didn't fit their style sufficiently). You don't get those links if you're a mug.

I’d love to know where you get your info from (who from what I hear mostly concluded that while good enough he didn’t fit their style sufficiently)

[boatshed bill]

Crouch could use his head though , no ?

Crouch at his peak was an outstanding footballer.

[spt_claret]

I’d love to know where you get your info from (who from what I hear mostly concluded that while good enough he didn’t fit their style sufficiently)

Guy I know through work who claims to have a couple of contacts at Arsenal, he was extolling the virtues of Weghorst bigtime to me when we signed him. Not sure how true his supposed contacts are but is all I can go off of on that front and don't see why he'd make it up.

[elwaclaret]

Most of what time ?

His career to date.

[joey13]

His career to date.

So Holland have been a match for England since 2018 then ?

[elwaclaret]

So Holland have been a match for England since 2018 then ?

As often as not, yes.

[joey13]

As often as not, yes.

2018 World Cup England semi-finalist
Holland didn’t even qualify

2020/21 Euros England finalists
Holland knocked out in the last 16

Come on I’m interested how you come the conclusion that Holland have been as good as England since 2018

[elwaclaret]

2018 World Cup England semi-finalist
Holland didn’t even qualify

2020/21 Euros England finalists
Holland knocked out in the last 16

Come on I’m interested how you come the conclusion that Holland have been as good as England since 2018

They’ve played twice in that time England won 1-0 and the Dutch won 3-1. If you want to quote Competitions… I suggest you explain the group stages draws not being relevant, or the level of opposition in the qualifiers? Your argument is nonsensical and your tone laughable “Come on”, really?

[Newcastleclaret93]

He is though.
He's caught offside far less.
He drops deep far better and more often to link play, and then gets back up top, while Wood would often loiter & lumber.
He's significantly more agile and able to control the ball at height.
Wood at his best was deceptively mobile I'll grant you that- but Wood as he was for at least the last 2 years, was definitely not as mobile as Weghorst.

He is knowhere near as mobile as Wood it’s not even worth talking about. If we go off what uefa document his average pace as it’s 26 kmh. That puts him in the bracket of the slowest players in the league.

I can appreciate people saying Weghorst is technically better and clearly a smarter footballer but saying he is more mobile is just nonsense. The slowest striker I have seen in the prem by some distance. I actually think Crouch was more mobile when he played for us.

[spt_claret]

He is knowhere near as mobile as Wood it’s not even worth talking about. If we go off what uefa document his average pace as it’s 26 kmh. That puts him in the bracket of the slowest players in the league.

I can appreciate people saying Weghorst is technically better and clearly a smarter footballer but saying he is more mobile is just nonsense. The slowest striker I have seen in the prem by some distance. I actually think Crouch was more mobile when he played for us.

That pace stat would genuinely suprise me and I'd like to see a link and also Wood's. I'd never call him rapid, but that surprises me. Especially given how for the last couple of years Wood's movement massively reduced and he was constantly offside or slow to get back and link. Maybe that was more a tactical choice than I thought.

[joey13]

They’ve played twice in that time England won 1-0 and the Dutch won 3-1. If you want to quote Competitions… I suggest you explain the group stages draws not being relevant, or the level of opposition in the qualifiers? Your argument is nonsensical and your tone laughable “Come on”, really?

My argument is nonsense, you’re embarrassing yourself, I simply sorry I’m wrong would have sufficed.

[Newcastleclaret93]

That pace stat would genuinely suprise me and I'd like to see a link and also Wood's. I'd never call him rapid, but that surprises me. Especially given how for the last couple of years Wood's movement massively reduced and he was constantly offside or slow to get back and link. Maybe that was more a tactical choice than I thought.

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/team ... tatistics/

That’s the pace stats I saw on Twitter for Weghorst.

I’ve seen a few varying ones for Wood but his average seems to be around 28 with a top speed of 32.

I don’t think Weghorst is ever offside because he never runs the channels. He constantly comes deep to try get on the ball. I believe his average position again palace or Brentford (can’t remember which one) was very close to Brownhill and Westwood.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

That pace stat would genuinely suprise me and I'd like to see a link and also Wood's. I'd never call him rapid, but that surprises me. Especially given how for the last couple of years Wood's movement massively reduced and he was constantly offside or slow to get back and link. Maybe that was more a tactical choice than I thought.

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/team ... tatistics/

Weghorst's stats based on 5 appearances for Netherlands.

Can't find anything for Wood yet.

[spt_claret]

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/team ... tatistics/

That’s the pace stats I saw on Twitter for Weghorst.

I’ve seen a few varying ones for Wood but his average seems to be around 28 with a top speed of 32.

I don’t think Weghorst is ever offside because he never runs the channels. He constantly comes deep to try get on the ball. I believe his average position again palace or Brentford (can’t remember which one) was very close to Brownhill and Westwood.

Thanks, was looking but couldn't find anything.
Pity it's only his Dutch stats so comparing two pretty different size datasets (5 games isn't a great sample size, nor is 12 tbh) with lots of confounding variables (team, opposition etc.) But I'll admit I'm wrong about his pace for now.

[Dark Cloud]

Forget the stats. I watch him week in week out and having been really pleased when he signed because I felt inadvertently we'd upgraded on Wood, I have realised we haven't. He's got a big heart and gives his all and he does have decent close control, but his moment of brilliance to set up Jay against Utd has proved to be a real flash in the pan. Unfortunately, he doesn't look good enough for this level. I desperately hope I'm proved wrong, but we'll have to see.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Thanks, was looking but couldn't find anything.
Pity it's only his Dutch stats so comparing two pretty different size datasets (5 games isn't a great sample size, nor is 12 tbh) with lots of confounding variables (team, opposition etc.) But I'll admit I'm wrong about his pace for now.

Yes I tried to find a bigger sample size but there doesn’t seem to be a lot out there.

[spt_claret]

Yes I tried to find a bigger sample size but there doesn’t seem to be a lot out there.

It's a problem I've found with sports data in general. From what i can see Opta don't even let you buy their datasets unless you're already in a sporting professional or academic setting. Very hard to get good data beyond the most basic metrics.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Our attacking stats over the last 6 games (individually)

Worth noting we also haven’t kept a clean sheet in 7 games.

[elwaclaret]

My argument is nonsense, you’re embarrassing yourself, I simply sorry I’m wrong would have sufficed.

No need to be sorry. Glad you admit your argument is nonsense. I’m only embarrassed because I’ve had the courtesy to keep replying to someone who defies logical argument. END OF CONVERSATION

[Tomcat]

I think he's carrying an injury, not as aggressive compared to when he first arrived.

[JR1882]

The next Mitrovic

[Elizabeth]

If Weghorst has settled in enough to want to help us give it a good go in the Championship, if as likely we go down, he will be a big asset in the Championship.

[superdimitri]

There's a pattern here. Those that liked Wood tend not to like Weghorst just like those that liked Hendrick tend not to like Brownhill.