January transfer window rumours.

[blake's wand]

I really hope our next signing is a ball carrying CM - I think it's the only thing we are really missing. Too many times against WBA ball broke to the midfield 3 with space ahead to counter and we didn't drive into it

[Newcastleclaret93]

As previously stated not every signing will, or has to make a huge profit.
Being part of a team that enables us to stay in the Prem is more than sufficient.

I’m not sure that’s our model any more? i don’t think the club will sign players for the rumoured fees and high wages without a clear view that they will make healthy profit from them. At 25 years old and having never played in a top division I don’t think the club would be remotely interested in a 20m quid investment.

Especially not when they have seen there are cheaper options with better pedigree abroad (Cornet being prime example).

[RVclaret]

I’m not sure that’s our model any more? i don’t think the club will sign players for the rumoured fees and high wages without a clear view that they will make healthy profit from them. At 25 years old and having never played in a top division I don’t think the club would be remotely interested in a 20m quid investment.

Especially not when they have seen there are cheaper options with better pedigree abroad (Cornet being prime example).

Kinda agree. No chance we pay 20m. We’ll only get involved where we see good value. 10-15 yes, 20m no.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Kinda agree. No chance we pay 20m. We’ll only get involved where we see good value. 10-15 yes, 20m no.

Agree,

I think for the rumoured money they would rather go for a younger option with more pedigree abroad.

[taio]

I’m not sure that’s our model any more? i don’t think the club will sign players for the rumoured fees and high wages without a clear view that they will make healthy profit from them. At 25 years old and having never played in a top division I don’t think the club would be remotely interested in a 20m quid investment.

Especially not when they have seen there are cheaper options with better pedigree abroad (Cornet being prime example).

I can't see us paying £20m for.a player either. But then again he probably won't go for that and there's a far greater chance he will end up at another club. Saying confidently he's at his peak based on the facts and his current trajectory is baseless.

[jedi_master]

He won’t go for £20m now, let alone the summer. Coventry would, I’m certain, take £12-15m now considering that he had only 18 months left and they’re not going up or down. I’m the summer you can reduce that to £10-12m. It’s a fallacy to say he cannot improve in value, if he signed and then notched 12-13 goals he’s already going to be in the £20m mark. Chris Wood is a good example albeit that was as much about Newcastle wanting to relegate us. Andre Gray was what, 27-28? We got £18.5m for him after buying him for £9m. He had only scored 9 goals in the Premier League for us.

In any case, whilst the majority of deals are with an eye on resale down the line, if Gyokeres came in and was a regular 1 in 3 scorer for us and vital in keeping us in that league, I think the club would be happy to bank on that rather than a £10m profit.

[123EasyasBFC]

We must sell benson Cullen brownhill roberts Taylor right away all older than 24 and past their peak now

[Newcastleclaret93]

We must sell benson Cullen brownhill roberts Taylor right away all older than 24 and past their peak now

That would fit in with the model, as we would make profit.

I know you were trying to be smart, but you just made my point.

[jedi_master]

We must sell benson Cullen brownhill roberts Taylor right away all older than 24 and past their peak now

Good point on Benson.

He’s 25 and cost us £3m. Lord knows what he’s worth now based on his appearances at this level alone. If he replicates anything remotely close to that a level higher? Big money.

[123EasyasBFC]

That would fit in with the model, as we would make profit.

I know you were trying to be smart, but you just made my point.

Your point was past their peak there’s no sell on value, do you not think we would sell benson would now be sold for probs triple what we paid for him?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Your point was past their peak there’s no sell on value, do you not think we would sell benson would now be sold for probs triple what we paid for him?

You’re missing the point over and over.

Benson at 3m is peanuts. There’s massive margin for profit. He hasn’t reached his peak value.

Gykores at 20m is incredibly expensive and is more than likely his peak value. If he were to score 12-13 goals in the prem his value might slightly increase (but even then that’s asking a lot since he’s only just managing that goal scoring ratio in the champ).

[jedi_master]

That would fit in with the model, as we would make profit.

I know you were trying to be smart, but you just made my point.

It’s just bizarre you’re convinced on a profit being possible on a player only if they’re under 25 and cheap. Andre Gray, Chris Wood, Nick Pope, Tom Heaton, Sam Vokes, Jason Shackell are all players we have made massive, massive profits on when they were in their late 20’s (early 30’s in the case of three of them) on what we paid. I’ve only gone back 5 seasons, and only with Burnley.

[123EasyasBFC]

Your pulling 20mil for him when you don’t know the price, Chris wood at 30 was sold for 25mil after 3 seasons of 10,12,14 prem goals or something close to that, if we signed Gyokeres for anything around 12-20mil and in 2 seasons he reached breeds 10-20 league goals by the time he’s 27 then he could easily get sold for more than 25mil

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s just bizarre you’re convinced on a profit being possible on a player only if they’re under 25 and cheap. Andre Gray, Chris Wood, Nick Pope, Tom Heaton, Sam Vokes, Jason Shackell are all players we have made massive, massive profits on when they were in their late 20’s (early 30’s in the case of three of them) on what we paid. I’ve only gone back 5 seasons, and only with Burnley.

It’s not about the age, it’s about peak value. If you buy players cheap the margin is massive. If you buy players for a high amount the margin for profit is massive and is totally dependent on the player being a raging success.

Benson is the perfect example at 3m. All he has to do is be remotely consistent in the prem and we could sell him on for a profit.

Gykores at 20m would have to seriously perform for the club to make a profit.

Thats the difference.

[123EasyasBFC]

It’s not about the age, it’s about peak value. If you buy players cheap the margin is massive. If you buy players for a high amount the margin for profit is massive and is totally dependent on the player being a raging success.

Benson is the perfect example at 3m. All he has to do is be remotely consistent in the prem and we could sell him on for a profit.

Gykores at 20m would have to seriously perform for the club to make a profit.

Thats the difference.

Chris wood was bought for 15mil at 26 and sold for 25mil at 30, 10mil profit seems good business to me

[Newcastleclaret93]

Your pulling 20mil for him when you don’t know the price, Chris wood at 30 was sold for 25mil after 3 seasons of 10,12,14 prem goals or something close to that, if we signed Gyokeres for anything around 12-20mil and in 2 seasons he reached breeds 10-20 league goals by the time he’s 27 then he could easily get sold for more than 25mil

You have answered your own question, for us to make a profit on Gykores he would need to score than many goals.

Something which theirs is no pedigree to suggest he will and the risk sits with the club.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Chris wood was bought for 15mil at 26 and sold for 25mil at 30, 10mil profit seems good business to me

Again you have missed the point.

What did Wood do to ascertain that profit? He was an excellent goal scorer over 3 years.

[Firthy]

I really hope our next signing is a ball carrying CM - I think it's the only thing we are really missing. Too many times against WBA ball broke to the midfield 3 with space ahead to counter and we didn't drive into it

I think that's a role Twine could play, in front of Cullen and Brownhill.

[Hapag Lloyd]

Chris Wood was bought to weaken a relegation rival not for his footballing ability.

[123EasyasBFC]

Again you have missed the point.

What did Wood do to ascertain that profit? He was an excellent goal scorer over 3 years.

Yes past the age of 24, my point all along was Gyokeres could do the same with his age which you disagreed with, we would be signing him younger than wood

[jedi_master]

It’s not about the age, it’s about peak value. If you buy players cheap the margin is massive. If you buy players for a high amount the margin for profit is massive and is totally dependent on the player being a raging success.

Benson is the perfect example at 3m. All he has to do is be remotely consistent in the prem and we could sell him on for a profit.

Gykores at 20m would have to seriously perform for the club to make a profit.

Thats the difference.

You keep using the ones that suit your argument and ignore the likes of Andre Gray, Chris Wood and Jason Shackell.

You’re effectively saying you’d be upset if the club signed anyone, regardless of their ability, for £15m+ in the summer if they are over the age of 25 in case we cannot make a profit on them one day. Whilst it’s clearly a great strategy to buy low and sell high, some players you get because their profile is correct for improving the team - a 24 year old striker is not by any stretch of the imagination unable to increase in value, nor would he cost £20m so I’d stop using that as your benchmark - his contract situation guarantees that.

There may well be a better option once promoted anyway so this discussion is probably irrelevant. I think he looks great and was super impressive at Turf Moor, as did everyone sat around me. Sometimes you see a player and can just ‘see’ the ability to play a level higher - he would step up, undoubtedly. He’d suit this team too.

[Newcastleclaret93]

You keep using the ones that suit your argument and ignore the likes of Andre Gray, Chris Wood and Jason Shackell.

You’re effectively saying you’d be upset if the club signed anyone, regardless of their ability, for £15m+ in the summer if they are over the age of 25 in case we cannot make a profit on them one day. Whilst it’s clearly a great strategy to buy low and sell high, some players you get because their profile is correct for improving the team - a 24 year old striker is not by any stretch of the imagination unable to increase in value, nor would he cost £20m so I’d stop using that as your benchmark - his contract situation guarantees that.

There may well be a better option once promoted anyway so this discussion is probably irrelevant. I think he looks great and was super impressive at Turf Moor, as did everyone sat around me. Sometimes you see a player and can just ‘see’ the ability to play a level higher - he would step up, undoubtedly. He’d suit this team too.

Time will tell, but I think almost a certain that we won’t even entertain a bid for Gykores whilst he’s valued at them sorts of sums.

Perhaps ten million but nothing more

[Hipper]

I really hope our next signing is a ball carrying CM - I think it's the only thing we are really missing. Too many times against WBA ball broke to the midfield 3 with space ahead to counter and we didn't drive into it

I'm sure Cullen et al could move with the ball but it's not normally how we play. We are more a pass, pass, pass team.

[andyh]

Time will tell, but I think almost a certain that we won’t even entertain a bid for Gykores whilst he’s valued at them sorts of sums.

Perhaps ten million but nothing more

I agree with you (for once). Gykores at 20m might appeal to an Everton or West Ham and we really don’t want to be fishing in the same pond as them. They both know how to over pay.

[Tricky Trevor]

A €7+3m bid? Even Westerlo can't refuse that.

I’ll pay the €7 meself!!
Thanks for the updates Jeffzie and call in any time.

[ClaretInLeeds]

Looks like we have agreed to pay the €10m wanted by Westerlo.

https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/s ... uary-2023/

Slow sports news over here….

[Notsosuperstevedavis]

I think the bid for Victor in the summer would more likely be £7-8m and 2-3m bonus dependant on staying up.

Dont forget this is meant to be a similar prospect to the Brighton/Brentford model,

Where they acquired a certain Ben Mee.
No resale value, but will be worth every penny.
Its not - like others have said about making mega money on every player.

But likewise we are not going to risk £20m on Victor - risk that he’d be a success to try make a couple of million on him.
The risk to profit ratio isnt right.
I think thats what been argued on the previous page. And NOT the players ability to improve post 24.

[jojomk1]

I really hope our next signing is a ball carrying CM - I think it's the only thing we are really missing. Too many times against WBA ball broke to the midfield 3 with space ahead to counter and we didn't drive into it

Not just ball carrying but also with pace and strength in the tackle

Cullen and Cork are doing a great job in the Championship but will get caught out in the Premiership due to a lack of pace, height and strength

No place for loyalty at the top table - which was the biggest mistake of Dyche as a good example

[clarethomer]

Time will tell, but I think almost a certain that we won’t even entertain a bid for Gykores whilst he’s valued at them sorts of sums.

Perhaps ten million but nothing more

i agree with you. I don't think we can compete in those levels of spending.

My impression of our approach so far is looking for value for money.

Gykores isn't value for money as he's as unproven as Foster is in the Premier League. He is a quality player and is a proven goal scorer though.

Some clubs can afford to risk £15-20m on a player like that. We cannot. At £10m, you are right but where you have a few clubs after a player - its harder to drive the price down. I can't see us being anywhere near this one.

[quoonbeatz]

We aren't going to entertain paying 20 million for Gyokeres because 1. He isn't worth that and 2. He isn't worth that. Nothing to do with profit.

[Dodobdobodobo]

Anymore news about signing the Bosnian midfielder Amir Hadziahmetovic?

[HiThere]

Anymore news about signing the Bosnian midfielder Amir Hadziahmetovic?

The last I read is that we've made the highest offer so far so it could be one that will happen nearer the end of the window if it does.

[brexit]

To those in the know.
With uncertainty over McNally's future, Costelloe out on loan and dipping into the international market, does this mean that we are no longer in developing youth mode? i.e. what about Richardson et al?
With the pattern of signings, is there an argument to say we are not expecting any of the loans to be made permanent?

[RVclaret]

To those in the know.
With uncertainty over McNally's future, Costelloe out on loan and dipping into the international market, does this mean that we are no longer in developing youth mode? i.e. what about Richardson et al?
With the pattern of signings, is there an argument to say we are not expecting any of the loans to be made permanent?

Going out on loan is part of youth development for some players. It's good to see these lads in League One/Two.

Wouldn't say 'not expecting' any of the loans to be made permanent, but there are many variables at play which could stop us getting 1. them all 2. the timing of them.

Pre-planning now, which we are doing, just leaves us ready, rather than having a huge immediate hole (like Forest did) upon promotion.

[Steddyman]

FFS can we not spend two pages arguing about why we shouldn't pay £20 million for a player we haven't bid on and might never. If we bid £20 million, then we can have that discussion. This is a transfer rumours thread.

[HistoricalClaret]

To those in the know.
With uncertainty over McNally's future, Costelloe out on loan and dipping into the international market, does this mean that we are no longer in developing youth mode? i.e. what about Richardson et al?
With the pattern of signings, is there an argument to say we are not expecting any of the loans to be made permanent?

Athletic has already reported that the club is planning to try get maatsen on a perm and we all know the same for Beyer before we signed the two CB's we only had one natural back up at CB which was Mcnally so we needed more anyway

[ksrclaret]

Thought there might be some more and exciting news after seeing another two pages added to this thread this morning.

No, my mistake. Just NewcastleClaret spouting ******** again and doubling down on it again.

[Big Vinny K]

Again you have missed the point.

What did Wood do to ascertain that profit? He was an excellent goal scorer over 3 years.

But there was no evidence to suggest he would be (in the PL) when we bought him.
How can you not see that the profit we made on Wood blows out any argument you are making ?
He wasn’t even at his peak as he was having his poorest 12 months with us and has carried on that form for another year.

If we buy the Coventry lad for say £15m we will 100% not be thinking that’s his peak value. Firstly his contract position reduces his price and secondly we will hope he develops. There are many examples of players doubling their value and being sold after a short period of scoring in this league.

[Newcastleclaret93]

But there was no evidence to suggest he would be (in the PL) when we bought him.
How can you not see that the profit we made on Wood blows out any argument you are making ?
He wasn’t even at his peak as he was having his poorest 12 months with us and has carried on that form for another year.

If we buy the Coventry lad for say £15m we will 100% not be thinking that’s his peak value. Firstly his contract position reduces his price and secondly we will hope he develops. There are many examples of players doubling their value and being sold after a short period of scoring in this league.

Wood a 1-2 record in the championship and just finished the season before with 28 goals in 41 games.

There’s a lot more pedigree there.

[IWOODLOVETT]

I would say that the early indications are that we will lose our first choice centre backs, but might be in with a shout for Tella and Maatsen. The signings of the two new centre backs bear this out, plus the farming out of McNally to a Championship rival to harden him up. Egan-Riley is also likely to be loaned out for serious game time.

Bobby Thomas and Dara Costello are the most likely lads and are being brought along slowly, but the strength and depth of the current squad is blocking any hopes of first team football for the foreseeable future.

[Swizzlestick]

Beyer surely viable if/when promoted? THB could be another loan, but agree unlikely to buy.

[HistoricalClaret]

Beyer is definently viable as a permanent and hes been angling for it in interviews

[Big Vinny K]

I would say that the early indications are that we will lose our first choice centre backs, but might be in with a shout for Tella and Maatsen. The signings of the two new centre backs bear this out, plus the farming out of McNally to a Championship rival to harden him up. Egan-Riley is also likely to be loaned out for serious game time.

Bobby Thomas and Dara Costello are the most likely lads and are being brought along slowly, but the strength and depth of the current squad is blocking any hopes of first team football for the foreseeable future.

If we do not buy Beyer that will be either because VK does not want him (thinks he has now found better / cheaper) or Beyer wants to go back to BM.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

If you were borrusia m you’d probably want Beyer back in your team next season. Looks like we have replaced him already but would be good to twist their arm somehow to get him in.

Farke will probably want too much for him now.

[Swizzlestick]

You only see so much, but Beyer seems to be having the time of his life here. As always, Kompany is key - if he stays, who wouldn’t want to be managed by him as a young defender?

[Shaggy]

Newcastle is bang on the money in this instance. If we target players like for example a Benson for £3m then the potential to make a profit is massive. Signing a Gyokores for £15-£20 isn’t.

It’s not rocket science. Not every signing will work out as planned but as long as the more of them do than not it’s a good business model.

[RVclaret]

I hope we can keep at least one of Beyer / THB. Don’t think THB is ‘as’ unrealistic as being made out, City are happy to cash in on their young players and I reckon something between 12-15m. The issue could be another PL coming in, already links to a few, but according to his old man he absolutely loves it here with us.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I’m happy for VK to keep plundering the Belgian league going off players like zaroury et al.

[arise_sir_charge]

I’m going to stick up for Newcastle here. I don’t always agree with him but I think he’s made a perfectly valid point/observation about Gyorkes and his value.

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Just a couple of points to the discussion on value, not every player we sign will be for the profit we can make on them, we might sign someone at 28/29, their value could be measured on his value in keeping us in the top league. We are not promoted yet.