Alan Pace

[RVclaret]

The Prem is a crowded market place for global support.
In reality we are never going to grow into a bigger club. People might have 'bit' more interest in us if we stay up, but unlikely to be any more than the majority of clubs as they all have bigger fan bases than us.

Bournemouth just attracted an American billionaire with half the size of fan base and crap stadium.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Technically yes it's in a worse place because we got relegated.
That was going to happen at some point even if Garlick had stayed in place, because it happens to a lot of PL clubs.

What exactly do you want from Pace for you to be happy with him?
Debt free
Reach Europe

What else?

So far he's overseen a complete overhaul of the squad after making a very astute appointment in Kompany as manager

The transfer policy has the potential to be far superior to what it was under the previous owners.
The social media side has taken off, vastly superior, and is attracting masses of positive attention, which in turn is changing people's views of the club.
Academy - appears to be working hard at getting it back to cat 1.

He had a rough start but him and the team are doing a good job thus far at moving the club forwards.

I know you like to be unhappy about the club, but you've got to be really trying right now to be unhappy with what Pace etc are doing.

Where have I said I am unhappy haha.

I just stated the facts. Like I said things are heading in the right direction but there’s a long way to go.

[elwaclaret]

The Prem is a crowded market place for global support.
In reality we are never going to grow into a bigger club. People might have 'bit' more interest in us if we stay up, but unlikely to be any more than the majority of clubs as they all have bigger fan bases than us.

Every player in that team Burnley are looking to turn into top internationals…. Followed by another set, representing some underrepresented nations; exactly as the Big boys hit the Far East many moons ago.

First they notice you, then they follow casually then converted, over time they become Burnley fans.

It’s not about being the biggest it’s about not being the smallest; they are taking a bite into a world market Burnley have never explored, which is only going one way… I know Foster caused quite a boost in South African interest in Burnley on-line. Bait taken, now VK needs to make a hero into a minor god and South African’s will be tuning in regularly to watch him…

[Spijed]

Bournemouth just attracted an American billionaire with half the size of fan base and crap stadium.

And Bournemouth are never going to grow their fan base much bigger than it is now.

[Spijed]

Every player in that team Burnley are looking to turn into top internationals…. Followed by another set, representing some underrepresented nations; exactly as the Big boys hit the Far East many moons ago.

First they notice you, then they follow casually then converted, over time they become Burnley fans.

It’s not about being the biggest it’s about not being the smallest; they are taking a bite into a world market Burnley have never explored, which is only going one way… I know Foster caused quite a boost in South African interest in Burnley on-line. Bait taken, now VK needs to make a hero into a minor god and South African’s will be tuning in regularly to watch him…

And if all this came to fruition how big do you realistically think we could become on the global stage?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Every player in that team Burnley are looking to turn into top internationals…. Followed by another set, representing some underrepresented nations; exactly as the Big boys hit the Far East many moons ago.

First they notice you, then they follow casually then converted, over time they become Burnley fans.

It’s not about being the biggest it’s about not being the smallest; they are taking a bite into a world market Burnley have never explored, which is only going one way… I know Foster caused quite a boost in South African interest in Burnley on-line. Bait taken, now VK needs to make a hero into a minor god and South African’s will be tuning in regularly to watch him…

I've raised this point before but a lot of people dismissed it as fantasy...

[GodIsADeeJay81]

And if all this came to fruition how big do you realistically think we could become on the global stage?

We can certainly be bigger than we are now.
We absolutely failed to take advantage of being in the PL to grow our international fanbase, I've pointed that out a few times, but always got pelters for it

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Where have I said I am unhappy haha.

I just stated the facts. Like I said things are heading in the right direction but there’s a long way to go.

Actually no there isn't a long way to go though.
He's already surpassed Garlicks tenure in many ways.
I wouldn't be shocked to see us match the 7th place finish.

You still didn't state what you'd like to see from Pace.

[CoolClaret]

And if all this came to fruition how big do you realistically think we could become on the global stage?

Let’s just not bother eh

Get back down to league 2 and have a British squad with a British manager.

Wear our flat caps, drink our Bennie and sing ‘in our Lancashire homes’, with no cameras on the ground - proper traditional football just like Bob Lord would have wanted

[Newcastleclaret93]

Actually no there isn't a long way to go though.
He's already surpassed Garlicks tenure in many ways.
I wouldn't be shocked to see us match the 7th place finish.

You still didn't state what you'd like to see from Pace.

I have, get us back to where he took over.

No debt and in the premier league.

[elwaclaret]

I've raised this point before but a lot of people dismissed it as fantasy...

Nice to be able to agree with you. You need to put the right people into every positions, but first you need the positions to be right. I personally think we’re still fairly early into this ‘project.’

[ClaretTony]

Let’s just not bother eh

Get back down to league 2 and have a British squad with a British manager.

Wear our flat caps, drink our Bennie and sing ‘in our Lancashire homes’, with no cameras on the ground - proper traditional football just like Bob Lord would have wanted

Shows how little you know about Bob Lord

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I have, get us back to where he took over.

No debt and in the premier league.

So that's it?
All the other work that's been done to grow the club is part of the journey and was absolutely needed.
You might find that the club remains in debt even if he sold it, you'll just need to get used to it whether you like it or not.

Also, he could lead us back to the PL, but at some point we will most likely come back down, because that's football and someone has to get relegated.
It might not be for a number of years, but it will happen.

[Spijed]

I wouldn't be shocked to see us match the 7th place finish.

That's certainly possible as we've done it once, without money.

[Spijed]

That's certainly possible as we've done it once, without money*.

*Bit of a dig at Brighton & Brentford

[CoolClaret]

Shows how little you know about Bob Lord

Admittedly Tony I’m not a Bob Lord expert, I mean bear in mind my post was slightly facetious- all I know is that he was opposed to having live matches broadcast on TV.

Happy to be wrong though

[Cooclaret]

I’d agree. Plenty of interest from the US in British sport and football generally. I’d imagine culturally Alan would prefer US investment and certainly will have the contacts.

Gut feel is that we haven’t had any yet - or I think we might’ve been more ambitious in January - but I think some will come if promoted.

I think we were astute in January, made additions were needed and allowed them to bed in for next season in the Prem.

I also think the moneys there, we’re just waiting to be crowned champions as that compliments the press release well.

[Cooclaret]

That’s your opinion.

My opinion is the club is in a worse spot than when he took over.

If he gets back to that point great. He’s got a long way to go.

If Pace achieves half of what Garlick and co did then he will have succeeded in his role.

The club is in a worse spot. You genuinely believe that?

Then you must also think that Brexit was a good idea, that Boris and Trump are a new world order dream team, and that the earth is flat.

You’re an idiot of the highest order.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The club is in a worse spot. You genuinely believe that?

Then you must also think that Brexit was a good idea, that Boris and Trump are a new world order dream team, and that the earth is flat.

You’re an idiot of the highest order.

It’s a fact. The club is in a worse position now. We have debt and are in a lower division.

Not sure how anyone can spin that to say otherwise

[Vegas Claret]

Where have I said I am unhappy haha.

I just stated the facts. Like I said things are heading in the right direction but there’s a long way to go.

a long way to go to where exactly ? Not having a pop, just interested to know what you think "a long way to go" means ?

[Rileybobs]

The club is in a worse spot. You genuinely believe that?

Then you must also think that Brexit was a good idea, that Boris and Trump are a new world order dream team, and that the earth is flat.

You’re an idiot of the highest order.

I mean, he’s not wrong is he. We are playing at a lower level (not for long gratefully), have a bank balance in the red and have significantly smaller assets (although maybe not for long).

Yes the football is fantastic, the enthusiasm is back and the future is looking rosy, but it’s a very valid point that the club was in a stronger position before it was bought by Pace.

[COBBLE]

I have, get us back to where he took over.

No debt and in the premier league.

Hi Ncc I value your conservative approach and would not like you to stop participating in what is only a discussion forum. But I can assure you that most of the best run companies in the world fund an element of their business with debt. Their shareholders would not be happy If you didn't. If you can pay the interest why not. Just keep the balance under control and we have created assets and a recruitment machine that works. I believe we are owned by clever responsible people.

[Newcastleclaret93]

a long way to go to where exactly ? Not having a pop, just interested to know what you think "a long way to go" means ?

For the club to be a stable premier league club. In relation to the finances I’m not sure the club will pay of the debt in a short period of time, it’s likely they will have to invest a further 40m or so this summer to give Kompany a good chance of staying up.

To get the club back to the position it was in I suspect we could be talking 3-4 more seasons.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Hi Ncc I value your conservative approach and would not like you to stop participating in what is only a discussion forum. But I can assure you that most of the best run companies in the world fund an element of their business with debt. Their shareholders would not be happy If you didn't. If you can pay the interest why not. Just keep the balance under control and we have created assets and a recruitment machine that works. I believe we are owned by clever responsible people.

I appreciate that. My concern is how quickly clubs can sink even with minimal debt.

[Cooclaret]

I mean, he’s not wrong is he. We are playing at a lower level (not for long gratefully), have a bank balance in the red and have significantly smaller assets (although maybe not for long).

Yes the football is fantastic, the enthusiasm is back and the future is looking rosy, but it’s a very valid point that the club was in a stronger position before it was bought by Pace.

We had a depressing brand on and off the pitch…

We had a squad that was aged and had depreciated to a point of failure to perform…

We had inflated contracts that were strangling the club…

We had decimated the staffing within Academy…

We couldn’t attract investment, even as a steady Premier League club…

We had an owner who was ill equipped for the Premier League, transfers being one point…

The only strength of the club was its league position, and Dyche (not Stone and Woan who I think are absolute planks), by every other metric, it was a club that was sinking.

[Cooclaret]

For the club to be a stable premier league club. In relation to the finances I’m not sure the club will pay of the debt in a short period of time, it’s likely they will have to invest a further 40m or so this summer to give Kompany a good chance of staying up.

To get the club back to the position it was in I suspect we could be talking 3-4 more seasons.

I think we’ll see investment above your 40million idea.

BUT! They have no money, you’ve mentioned a few times. They are chancers, you’ve mentioned that a few times, they aren’t Garlick, you mentioned that a few times.

Give it a rest and try getting outside, with a cup of tea, deep breath, and try having some positivity in your life.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think we’ll see investment above your 40million idea.

BUT! They have no money, you’ve mentioned a few times. They are chancers, you’ve mentioned that a few times, they aren’t Garlick, you mentioned that a few times.

Give it a rest and try getting outside, with a cup of tea, deep breath, and try having some positivity in your life.

I literally have no idea why you’re trying to make out like I’m being negative.

Whatever floats your boat at nearly 11pm on a Sunday haha

[claret54]

Admittedly Tony I’m not a Bob Lord expert, I mean bear in mind my post was slightly facetious- all I know is that he was opposed to having live matches broadcast on TV.

Happy to be wrong though

Bob Lord was opposed to live TV matches only because he thought clubs were not getting paid enough from the TV companies. A man ahead of his time.

[Rileybobs]

We had a depressing brand on and off the pitch…

We had a squad that was aged and had depreciated to a point of failure to perform…

We had inflated contracts that were strangling the club…

We had decimated the staffing within Academy…

We couldn’t attract investment, even as a steady Premier League club…

We had an owner who was ill equipped for the Premier League, transfers being one point…

The only strength of the club was its league position, and Dyche (not Stone and Woan who I think are absolute planks), by every other metric, it was a club that was sinking.

Whilst a lot of those points are true, we were still in a better position as a club than than we currently are. As you’ve raised the academy, you’ve reminded me that we have also lost our Category 1 license since the takeover. This is not being negative, and I don’t see the need for being abusive to Newcastleclaret for raising what are pretty inescapable truths.

[Cooclaret]

Whilst a lot of those points are true, we were still in a better position as a club than than we currently are. As you’ve raised the academy, you’ve reminded me that we have also lost our Category 1 license since the takeover. This is not being negative, and I don’t see the need for being abusive to Newcastleclaret for raising what are pretty inescapable truths.

All those points show that the club was failing and that it was imploding at a pretty rapid rate under Garlick. The club wasn’t in a better place other than it’s league position. Something we’ve almost certainly got back.

The academy was decimated on Garlicks watch, and is finally now being out right.

[ClaretTony]

Admittedly Tony I’m not a Bob Lord expert, I mean bear in mind my post was slightly facetious- all I know is that he was opposed to having live matches broadcast on TV.

Happy to be wrong though

He wasn’t opposed to having live matches broadcast at all, he was against the tv companies not paying the going rate or anything like it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Whilst a lot of those points are true, we were still in a better position as a club than than we currently are. As you’ve raised the academy, you’ve reminded me that we have also lost our Category 1 license since the takeover. This is not being negative, and I don’t see the need for being abusive to Newcastleclaret for raising what are pretty inescapable truths.

It won't matter what Pace does, Newcastle stated very early on that he felt Pace would shaft the club in the long term.

He's never been willing to give them a chance, so any discussion with them about the positives done by the owners is pretty much a waste of time.

[Jakubclaret]

It’s been done to death weighing up the pros & cons from regime to regime it is what it is & living in the moment right now it’s good & refreshing whether it’ll stay that way is questionable but you can’t go through life being depressed & preempting problems & finding fault nothing will ever be perfect. I was extremely critical post Newcastle but we have responded in the right manner & are doing all the right things to get to where we were before with a stronger platform to build upon. We are getting promoted at the first time of asking with a young promising team what’s not to like.

[ClaretPete001]

Hi Ncc I value your conservative approach and would not like you to stop participating in what is only a discussion forum. But I can assure you that most of the best run companies in the world fund an element of their business with debt. Their shareholders would not be happy If you didn't. If you can pay the interest why not. Just keep the balance under control and we have created assets and a recruitment machine that works. I believe we are owned by clever responsible people.

Not in your wildest dreams can you compare a leveraged buyout funded by high interest debt from companies like MSD to the best run companies in the world.

[arise_sir_charge]

Not in your wildest dreams can you compare a leveraged buyout funded by high interest debt from companies like MSD to the best run companies in the world.

Of course you can.

Whilst we had ‘no debt’ as people seem to proudly exclaim we also had very limited prospects and I doubt that had we been relegated with money in the bank we would have seen anything like we have seen this last 8-9 months.

We saw a criminal lack of investment from the previous board prior to the takeover. They might have had some cash in the bank but the roof was raining in.

Also all this talk of being in the red, do you factor your outstanding mortgage value in when you look at your own bank balance?

[KRBFC]

The critics do seem to have disappeared back under their stones now don’t they? And that criticism was massively premature, like many criticisms on here.

It depends what the criticism was initially for. I still don't like the finances around the takeover, I think it's immoral and left us in an incredibly worse financial position. I always supported the decision to remove Dyche and hire VK. I didn't like the silence after relegation. I didn't see the logic in raising ticket prices in the PL whilst not selling out, showed a lack of understanding. I never got into the American insults because I don't care where he's from. I did praise him for speaking well, comes across as a nice guy and never hid from decisions he made, sacked Dyche and was chatting to fans around the ground days later. It's very easy to mask poor financial decisions whilst the team is winning games, I just hope we're smart upon promotion and get the ducks in order, no more loans.

[Rileybobs]

Also all this talk of being in the red, do you factor your outstanding mortgage value in when you look at your own bank balance?

If I lived in a £500k property which I owned outright I would consider myself in a better position than if I lived in a £300k property with a 90% mortgage.

[KRBFC]

Technically yes it's in a worse place because we got relegated.
That was going to happen at some point even if Garlick had stayed in place, because it happens to a lot of PL clubs.

What exactly do you want from Pace for you to be happy with him?
Debt free
Reach Europe

What else?

So far he's overseen a complete overhaul of the squad after making a very astute appointment in Kompany as manager

The transfer policy has the potential to be far superior to what it was under the previous owners.
The social media side has taken off, vastly superior, and is attracting masses of positive attention, which in turn is changing people's views of the club.
Academy - appears to be working hard at getting it back to cat 1.

He had a rough start but him and the team are doing a good job thus far at moving the club forwards.

I know you like to be unhappy about the club, but you've got to be really trying right now to be unhappy with what Pace etc are doing.

Good post, agree with everything. We're now seeing what he meant by ''favourite underdog'' etc, with Dyche that was never going to happen, I think he made a mistake with the Dyche contract but he was new here and probably tried to make a positive first impression by tying down the manager. My opinion on the finances around the takeover hasn't changed but because we're now looking at going up, hopefully it gives us chance to rectify that and become debt free.

[KRBFC]

And if all this came to fruition how big do you realistically think we could become on the global stage?

Kids 20 years ago were not born Man City/Chelsea fans, now they're global powerhouses. The PL is the most watched sports league in football, the biggest global sport in the world. I see the future PL being a full billionaire cock swinging contest as middle eastern countries do battle. You have the lot at City, Saudis at Newcastle, Qatar looking like getting Man United. When do the royal family of Bahrain get involved? or some Egyptian prince.

Basically the better we do on the pitch, the more likely the next generation are to chose Burnley. The longer we're sat at the top table as the PL wealth rises, the more likely we are to attract investment. There's only 20 seats at the PL table and plenty of those clubs are closed to new ownership (Newcastle aren't gonna be sold etc).

[chipbutty]

You’re right! I hope he has no say on anything, and that he’s made to be the brew boy!

CooCoo the Clown.
Why would Garlick be still a Director and be made brew boy?

[arise_sir_charge]

If I lived in a £500k property which I owned outright I would consider myself in a better position than if I lived in a £300k property with a 90% mortgage.

Depends doesn’t it.

What if your £500k house was rapidly depreciating in value and the jobs that needed doing were building up
And you had neither the desire nor the inclination to do anything about it.

However your £300k house is in great condition and looks like it’s value could rise very quickly because the work you’ve done to it is of a very high standard but you got it all done at a snip.

[Chester Perry]

CooCoo the Clown.
Why would Garlick be still a Director and be made brew boy?

Indeed it is plausible to suggest that Garlick may be the 4th largest shareholder in the club and no less than the 6th or7th largest shareholder in the club

[Rileybobs]

Depends doesn’t it.

What if your £500k house was rapidly depreciating in value and the jobs that needed doing were building up
And you had neither the desire nor the inclination to do anything about it.

However your £300k house is in great condition and looks like it’s value could rise very quickly because the work you’ve done to it is of a very high standard but you got it all done at a snip.

I don’t think this analogy is working any more.

[Chester Perry]

Speaking as someone who has a expressed a preference for football clubs to be debt free, unless the debt is being used in developing assets that provide sustainable long term revenue growth, I will offer my take which has evolved a little over the years.

For anyone criticising Pace based on the external debt, there is really only one criticism that kind of stands on its legs (and there are established and accepted business reasoning against even this) and that is that the debt has not been used to develop the club but to buy it - there is an argument that this is the cost of the new leadership (in lieu of salaries/dividends) which a huge majority are very happy with at the moment given the simply exquisite developments/progress we have seen on the pitch.

As for the debt being affordable - we have seen that it is at the levels that have been publicly declared within the structures MSD imposed on it - much more so in the Premier league. All it takes is disciplined fiscal management and to date that is exactly what we have seen since the takeover. Of course if the ownership can significantly increase the non-broadcasting revenues (football's holy grail) then the cost of external debt is increasingly less of a worry in ratio to revenues, most conventional businesses would regard the cost ratio as quite modest.

Those who want the debt cleared are likely going to have to wait quite a while - I strongly suspect the MSD loan has already been refinanced with MSD themselves - just with a different structure. This new facility is likely a drawdown facility that works more like an overdraft and will have caps (or ceilings) dependent on the division we are in and for how long when in the EFL. Such a deal offers flexibility with interest rates (useful given the periodic income surges in football) and potentially removes interest penalty payments on a future relegation (though the capital would have to be brought down to the lower league cap if above it at the point of relegation). Such a facility explains the removal of the MSDUKH listing on November 17 2022, that assumed a consistent debt balance and interest payment. The belief the deal is still with MSD is based on the fact that the charges at Companies House remain for MSD.

What I find intriguing is that it appears the people who do have concerns, we must acknowledge that many (possibly a significant majority) do not, are focused on the external debt and not the money the club has loaned to ALK/VSL via Calder Vale Holdings Limited for an indefinite period interest free - which is close to £80m if you exclude the £65m MSD flow through to them, and has the potential to increase further in the coming months as the final stage payment becomes due.

Even with this the outflow, the peak for it has now passed and its value is likely to be around a quarter this calendar year to that of the last, with a similar amount the following year if no fresh external investment is forthcoming and the option for the outstanding shares of the original sellers is exercised.

This means that increasingly a greater share of the clubs revenues will be staying in the club potentially allowing it to develop in ways many have been hoping for.

[Vegas Claret]

Our scouting alone should give people long term confidence.

[Spijed]

Kids 20 years ago were not born Man City/Chelsea fans, now they're global powerhouses. The PL is the most watched sports league in football, the biggest global sport in the world. I see the future PL being a full billionaire cock swinging contest as middle eastern countries do battle. You have the lot at City, Saudis at Newcastle, Qatar looking like getting Man United. When do the royal family of Bahrain get involved? or some Egyptian prince.

Basically the better we do on the pitch, the more likely the next generation are to chose Burnley. The longer we're sat at the top table as the PL wealth rises, the more likely we are to attract investment. There's only 20 seats at the PL table and plenty of those clubs are closed to new ownership (Newcastle aren't gonna be sold etc).

It's been mentioned elsewhere but as soon as we drop and stay down all our support we earn, as with every other small club in the Prem, vanishes.

All you are seeing is a temporary thing with clubs like ours. Our global support might increase a little bit as we are flavour of the month for a season or two but it will never increase permanently.

A few seasons away from the Prem and our gates will be back to a similar level to that of Preston and Rovers no matter how well we've done under the ownership of Alan Pace with VK as manager in the meantime.

Hence why Rovers are now playing in a ground that's too big for them despite winning the PL. They are now playing in front of gates which is at the level you'd expect in the Championship.

That's just they way it is.

[Vegas Claret]

Kids 20 years ago were not born Man City/Chelsea fans, now they're global powerhouses.

City were averaging 28K in the second division to be fair. I think they are one of those "city" teams that are more like they come from a town, a bit like Everton - so I think people are born fans of those clubs and always will be. Chelsea I would probably agree with

[Cooclaret]

I think there’s a valid point above.

Who’s for sale in the Premier League? Burnley are an attractive proposition.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Good post, agree with everything. We're now seeing what he meant by ''favourite underdog'' etc, with Dyche that was never going to happen, I think he made a mistake with the Dyche contract but he was new here and probably tried to make a positive first impression by tying down the manager. My opinion on the finances around the takeover hasn't changed but because we're now looking at going up, hopefully it gives us chance to rectify that and become debt free.

I think the only plausible way we can get back to being debt free is staying in the prem for 3-4 years.

We are likely to double our debt in the next 12 months trying to sign players that will keep us up.

The pressure is on VK he’s got to perform over the next few years.

But recruitment looks to have improved so hopefully he’s got a good chance.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I think the only plausible way we can get back to being debt free is staying in the prem for 3-4 years.

We are likely to double our debt in the next 12 months trying to sign players that will keep us up.

The pressure is on VK he’s got to perform over the next few years.

But recruitment looks to have improved so hopefully he’s got a good chance.

The club is already quite some way ahead of where you thought we would be surely though, considering you expected a season of a struggle with ta best a mid table finish and more chance of relegation than promotion.

Who is putting the pressure on Kompany ? Recruitment looks to have improved is another step ahead of where you thought we would be due to us doing it on the cheap all summer. You might enjoy the club a bit more if you just watched the games and focussed less on things you don't understand.