Ashes Second Test

[RVclaret]

48-6 today what a poor, poor start to day 3.

[Vino blanco]

Yup, all counts under "players making daft shot choices"

I'm glad you agree with me, this new England "mentality" is not working in an Ashes series agsinst a decent Aussie team.

[Lancasterclaret]

Thought the Aussies batted abysmally yesterday morning

We've done the ultimate "Hold my beer" this morning though

[FCBurnley]

Now let’s see what our medium pacers can do ?

[CoolClaret]

In elite sport the teams with the best players usually come out on top. Ask yourself how many of this England team would get into the Aussies team. Joe Root aside I can't think of any. Having said all of that we've shot ourselves in the foot at every opportunity. 45/6 this morning. Not good enough.

We have some phenomenally talented players - they’re just a lot rawer and a lot less disciplined than the Aussie players

I know what you’re saying though

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm glad you agree with me, this new England "mentality" is not working in an Ashes series agsinst a decent Aussie team.

I don't think the coaching and the philosophy is the issue

Shite shot selection isn't a coaching issue surely?

[Clive 1960]

Credit to the Aussie bowling attack minus 1 they really did a job on us , can't see anything but a Australia win , i hope I'm wrong but we have dug a big hole to get out of.

[Vino blanco]

I don't think the coaching and the philosophy is the issue

Shite shot selection isn't a coaching issue surely?

In my opinion it most certainly is.

[Ampth7]

What a pathetic attempt that innings was! The Aussies must be thinking the same and without even needing to bowl that well they’ve skittled us for nearly 100 runs behind.
All this garbage talk of Bazball, attacking cricket doesn’t count for **** unless you win!

[MT03ALG]

England pressed the self destruct button

[Mondsley]

We have some phenomenally talented players - they’re just a lot rawer and a lot less disciplined than the Aussie players

I know what you’re saying though

Perhaps I should have said " at the moment" when posing the question as to how many of the England team would get into the Aussie side. Yes, we have talented but raw players. But you need to learn quickly. And on the evidence of this morning, we aren't doing.

[nil_desperandum]

The only problem being that having told the cricketing world that you are revolutionising the way that Test Cricket is being played the players now seem committed to BAZ ball. The players have been selected to play that way with greater risk in their game.

I think an important point is that we've made our approach and tactics known ahead of the series, so Australia have adapted accordingly.
They have adopted different tactics at different times to counter our "revolutionary" batting approach, and their upper order batters have been as dogged and determined as ever, giving very little away. Smith etc know that if they occupy the crease for long enough they'll grind it out and post +400 scores.
We need a far more balanced and intelligent approach, and the option of a Plan B and even C.

[Lancasterclaret]

We have to bowl them out for less than 200

Huge, huge, huge, huge task

[Casper2]

Pathetic this morning, too many egos in that dressing room refusing to change

[Lancasterclaret]

In my opinion it most certainly is.

The performance of the England team since he took over suggests something else to be fair

[jdrobbo]

For somebody who is a quick learner in many things..... your constant inability to understand the universal pull you have on cricket is startling

Fair

[Ampth7]

It’s a long way back now to win this game! It seems to me that at the moment when the key moments come, this team collapse. Stupid declarations, second innings of the first test and now this. Someone needs to take some effin responsibility and dig in!

[alwaysaclaret]

Insult to say it's schoolboy

To the schoolboys I meant

[Vino blanco]

The performance of the England team since he took over suggests something else to be fair

This is an Ashes series on home soil. You can’t play cavalier cricket against a battle-hardened Aussie team.

[The Hung Juror]

Currently at work drafting an agreement, just went on the BBC sport app to see an all too familiar headline - England collapse - immediately went back to the agreement.

[Lancasterclaret]

This is an Ashes series on home soil. You can’t play cavalier cricket against a battle-hardened Aussie team.

Its not cavalier cricket, its shite shot selection!

[kentonclaret]

England have selected a head coach, a captain and a squad of players to play this brand of attacking “no fear” cricket and I cannot see them ditching that approach whatever the outcome in this Test Match. Stepping out wide of the leg stump and taking a wild cross batted swing at the ball is normally a shot associated with a tail ender not a middle order batsman.

[Vino blanco]

Its not cavalier cricket, its shite shot selection!

Your opinion, not mine.

[Lancasterclaret]

Your opinion, not mine.

its not an opinion to call it "shite shot selection" is it?

I'm as annoyed as you are btw, but I'm annoyed at us throwing away wickets that cost us the 1st test and now will probably cost us this one, rather than the idea of scoring quickly and playing aggressive cricket

You could also throw in some very poor bowling on Day 1, and some selection choices (which Stokes and Baz are responsible for) as well

Either way its just very, very disappointing

[Taffy on the wing]

5.50 am here….back to bed.
What a shitshow!

[FCBurnley]

Did I really get up at 5.30 am to watch this ? Men v Boys so far

[dandeclaret]

its not an opinion to call it "shite shot selection" is it?

I'm as annoyed as you are btw, but I'm annoyed at us throwing away wickets that cost us the 1st test and now will probably cost us this one, rather than the idea of scoring quickly and playing aggressive cricket

You could also throw in some very poor bowling on Day 1, and some selection choices (which Stokes and Baz are responsible for) as well

Either way its just very, very disappointing

People dive in too quckly.... Australia equivalent of 117/0..... Games have been won from this position many times. Just go on the journey of a test match. Mistakes and choices during a 5 day game will be frequent, as will the element of luck, which England have been the wrong side of in both games so far I would say.

[Lancasterclaret]

People dive in too quckly.... Australia equivalent of 117/0..... Games have been won from this position many times. Just go on the journey of a test match. Mistakes and choices during a 5 day game will be frequent, as will the element of luck, which England have been the wrong side of in both games so far I would say.

Yup, they have also bowled very well in patches, and batted excellently to score as fast as they have

Not a lot to moan about if we are being totally honest, but this morning has knocked everyone flat I feel

[Casper2]

People dive in too quckly.... Australia equivalent of 117/0..... Games have been won from this position many times. Just go on the journey of a test match. Mistakes and choices during a 5 day game will be frequent, as will the element of luck, which England have been the wrong side of in both games so far I would say.

What ? 1 nil down ,and will lose this , Australia have been superior in all departments

[Lancasterclaret]

What ? 1 nil down ,and will lose this , Australia have been superior in all departments

We might lose this, but we'll have to bowl and bat very well to win it

Which we have done under Stokes/McCullum in the main

Its just a real shame that our better cricket in the 1st test was let down slightly (because it was superb entertainment) by our batting in the 2nd innings

Still hope!

[Quickenthetempo]

Australia have got this play and miss down to a fine art

The lucky buggers

[FCBurnley]

Poor effort by Jimmy to catch Khawaja. Broad of injured. Pope falls on his shoulder again and goes off. Hit to ask why was Pope not fielding close to wicket when he clearly couldn’t throw the ball ? Can this possibly get any worse ?

[Casper2]

At last

[Vino blanco]

People dive in too quckly.... Australia equivalent of 117/0..... Games have been won from this position many times. Just go on the journey of a test match. Mistakes and choices during a 5 day game will be frequent, as will the element of luck, which England have been the wrong side of in both games so far I would say.

I admire your optimism, I sincerely hope you are right.

[nil_desperandum]

, as will the element of luck, which England have been the wrong side of in both games so far I would say.

In what instances have we been unlucky? (apart from Brooks 1st Test 1st Inning fluke dismissal - and even that had an element of carelessness on his part for not following the ball when it spun in the air)
Is it bad luck to drop so many catches (and miss stumpings), or to play so many rash shots.
Both teams have had some luck with playing and missing but that even itself out, and we won the toss and bowled when conditions seemed most favorable .
I would say the unluckiest player has been Nathan Lyon, and yet from the very moment that he went off injured we have constructed to lose that enormous advantage.

[kentonclaret]

as will the element of luck, which England have been the wrong side of in both games so far I would say.

England won a critical toss and put Australia in to bat on a green tinged wicket under cloud covered skies with the lights on almost the entire first day. England batted in sunshine and Australia are batting for a second time under cloud cover.
Not a single cricket pundit or commentator failed to stress the importance of winning the toss on the first day under perfect conditions for bowling.

[Quickenthetempo]

England won a critical toss and put Australia in to bat on a green tinged wicket under cloud covered skies with the lights on almost the entire first day. England batted in sunshine and Australia are batting for a second time under cloud cover.
Not a single cricket pundit or commentator failed to stress the importance of winning the toss on the first day under perfect conditions for bowling.

Commentators often over exaggerate for talking points.
It was slightly favourable for bowling.
As Tubby said, it's a toss you want to lose.

Stokes would have bowled first no matter what. He wants to chase. The bowlers didn't have enough to bowl them out last Test when it mattered.
He's more confident of chasing 300 down.

[Quickenthetempo]

Broad should have had an LBW but didn't review.

[FCBurnley]

Cant even get it right when the batter is out. England beginning to look stupid and bewildered

[Lancasterclaret]

My optimism is fading it has to be said

[FCBurnley]

Broad should have had an LBW but didn't review.

Stokes massively at fault. Broad can’t review

[onewillieirvine]

Good game to win from here.

[Quickenthetempo]

Jimmy didn't even celebrate getting Marnus out, such is the frustration.

[FCBurnley]

Think Labuschange was feeling sorry for us. No celebration from England

[Rileybobs]

If we can just take a quick 8 wickets in the next few overs then we’re right back in this.

[Quickenthetempo]

Stokes is finding out what it's like to be England captain.

Nothings going right with field placings or tactics. Drop catches, unfit team.

The country jumping on the team when it's not going well.

[FCBurnley]

Should Stokes even be playing. Not fit enough to bowl and out of form with bat and now making bad calls as captain ?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Should Stokes even be playing. Not fit enough to bowl and out of form with bat and now making bad calls as captain ?

It certainly seems to be getting to him.

I didn’t realise how bad his record has been with the bat since becoming captain. They were saying on the radio his average since becoming captain is 27

[Andreshotboots]

It certainly seems to be getting to him.

I didn’t realise how bad his record has been with the bat since becoming captain. They were saying on the radio his average since becoming captain is 27

That's the problem with being an all rounder who's clearly injured. His bowling ability is virtually zero, and in the past he's been a golden arm for England.

When his batting goes too he's in trouble in terms of team contributions..I also think the same regarding Jimmy, I know he's not an all rounder but he clearly looks short of game time/ match sharpness to me.

I'd leave him out of the next test and replace him with Wood and keep the other 3 seamers..

[jrgbfc]

Problem with Broad is that he thinks every single lbw is absolutely plumb. Must make it tough for the captain when it comes to the reviews.