Britain's Strictest Headmistress - ITV, Sunday 22nd May 10:15pm

[Swizzlestick]

Without wishing to divert the thread too much, I’m glad the teachers aren’t now allowed to physically harm my daughter. Sorry if this makes me “woke” or something.

[Rowls]

Aggi’s question was a very clear one that you’ve avoided here.

He asked why you aren’t suggesting other schools emulate the methods of the Islam Girl’s High School, not if you’ve congratulated them or not.

Is it that you aren’t aware of their methods because they don’t promote them like the Michaela School do?

Sorry, it was early in the morning.

I don't know what methods this school is using. I suspect they're very similar to Michaela's because they're getting similar results.

Is that sufficient for you?

[Rowls]

In the 1950's it was normal to have the blackboard wooden backed duster thrown at you, as well as the chalk and pencils, and the cane about a dozen times year for really trivial "kids messing about" things.
Didn't do me any harm, instilled discipline and paid attention more often.
The teachers of today if they did that would be arrested, charged, court and lose their job.
It was just the part of a school day and Everyone was ok with it.

And yet none of this happens in the very modern, recently established Michaela school.

[ksrclaret]

Sorry, it was early in the morning.

I don't know what methods this school is using. I suspect they're very similar to Michaela's because they're getting similar results.

Is that sufficient for you?

Are you curious enough to find out?

[Rowls]

Are you curious enough to find out?

I hadn't thought to, no.

Katherine Birbalsingh has tweeted that all these top schools have certain things in common: strong discipline and traditional teacher-led lessons.

[Rowls]

I've just checked their website.

Tauheedul Islamic Girls High School has a "Star British Values" page and an "Our Mission, Vision and Values" that echo precisely the kind of thing that Katherine Birbalsingh advocates at Michaela.

I'm fully supportive of this kind of approach to education. Their results speak loudly of the success this kind of approach can deliver.

Well done to everybody working at TIGHS and well done to the girls for achieving those grades.

I only wish there were more schools instilling these values, habits and providing the same level of educational excellence.

[ksrclaret]

I hadn't thought to, no.

Katherine Birbalsingh has tweeted that all these top schools have certain things in common: strong discipline and traditional teacher-led lessons.

Now that I can understand. As a teacher myself in a Sixth Form College, I have known for some time that traditional teacher-led lessons are far more effective than inquiry-style lessons that became the fashionable thing around 20 years ago and still dominate a lot of the pedagogy in teacher training programmes today. Thankfully, this is slowly being overturned.

It would be good if programmes and articles promoting KB and her methods would also find out what schools like The Islam Girl's High School are doing. I think that would uncover some shared principles of education that all schools could apply.

[jdrobbo]

I have spent quite a long time monitoring her interactions with fellow teachers on social media over the last six or seven months. Many of her tweets have been deleted but a five minute search will guide you to many posts that still remain. The thing that I find disturbing most here is how she appears to treat people within the profession… Like they were dirt on the bottom of her shoe, in some examples.

What I also would like to question is her methodology behind commanding respect. I’m not going to slam it down, because different schools take different approaches, and I dare say there are excellent features within her philosophy, but what I would say, is highlighting social deprivation as a means for extremely strict discipline, is not something that I necessarily agree with….

Clear rules and boundaries - yes… Respect for everyone - yes… Sanctions for lack of compliance - yes. Zero tolerance on a number of issues - yes.

I do feel as though I’m in a good place to comment… I’m just about to finish my 18th year at the same school in an incredibly challenging inner-city area. At some stages throughout this period, my place of work has been situated in an area that has been in the bottom 1% (one percent) nationwide for social deprivation.

It’s tough, it’s bloody tough, but that doesn’t necessarily mean children come to school to be badly behaved or that they’re always hard work.

We give everything we have to give the children the best possible chance and shot at life… everything!

We’ve had boys in our fashion club, children of all ages, playing steel pans… full key stage choirs (120 children), boys in the netball team… Girls in the football team… Opportunities and love, wherever it is possible. Talents nurtured and allowed to blossom.

Our attendance for the last decade has been over 97% in every single year, apart from during the pandemic. This year and last, it’s over 98%. We make our school a place that children like to come.

Our results? They have been above national average for seven of the last eight years… Above national average!!! And as an added extra, many of our children arrive from Eritrean and Ethiopian backgrounds, having barely spoken a word of English before reaching four years of age. Their entry points are as low as they come!!

Suspensions? One child in the last 12 years.

Exclusions? None.

We don’t send children into isolation if they can’t afford their dinner money… we make them something different and we teach them the volume of good food and money!! We trust that they will eventually pay what is owed… And we very rarely have a problem, getting the money back!

There are a number of ways to skin a cat, so please forgive me for not showing much support for this alternative approach. Just because some areas are unbelievably difficult… There are several ways to garner respect. I’d like to think that all the children I have taught, and their parents, will respect me for that!

Over 80% of our pupils starting our school over the last decade have begun with no English…zero…four years into their life. On leaving school, in almost all of those years, they have left our school with cohort data that is in-line or often, above national averages in reading, writing and maths. We don’t make a song and dance about it and as before, we focus on enriching their lives in as many ways possible, be it through singing, sport etc.

Have you looked into this woman’s admissions policy in detail? Have you looked at what this woman has to say about social deprivation? You see, despite the area we work in, we never use it as a sweetener or excuse.

And why is progress 8 the only measure by which this person and her school is being placed on a pedestal?

As I say, we don’t run to the press with our start v end data! There’s far far far more to a child’s education and a school’s success than a set of progress data.

[Rowls]

Have you looked into this woman’s admissions policy in detail? Have you looked at what this woman has to say about social deprivation? You see, despite the area we work in, we never use it as a sweetener or excuse.

And why is progress 8 the only measure by which this person and her school is being placed on a pedestal?

Hi jdrobbo,

I assume it's just a kind of shorthand but your use of "this woman" to refer to Katherine Birbalsingh comes across badly. It sounds dismissive and derogatory. Shall we use KBS as an agreed abbreviation?

Regarding the admission policy of the Michaela school, she is often discussing this on Twitter.
There seem to be a large group of people claiming and/or implying that Michaela is somehow choosing it's students. She refutes this vehemently. As a non-selective state school, how would Michaela get around this?

There are ways for (rich) parents to game the system (buy a house next to a good school) but are there ways for schools to game the system?

You'd be better placed to advise us on this. KBS vehemently denies it though, as previously stated.

Progress 8 isn't the only way a school's success (or failure) should be measured but it's a good indicator. I've highlighted Michaela's stunning success here but it should never be suggested or inferred that this is the only way to measure a school's performance.

Keep up the good work at your own school and all the best.

[jdrobbo]

All the best to you, as well. I referred to her as a woman because this identifies with her selected pronouns. It’s a very interesting take that you make because, as I hope you already know, despite my dislike of her methods, I’m not one for going around and being derogatory about people. If I had referred to her as a lady, I suspect you wouldn’t have taken an issue. The fact that you did, makes me feel as though you are wanting to alienate people on your own thread, if they do not share a common viewpoint with you. My point now is that I feel as though you need to do a lot more wider reading around school operations, as it’s apparent, you are honing in on microscopic details. If you feel that paints, a full picture, or even half a picture, then fair enough.

[aggi]

I entirely missed this frankly bizarre letter of complaint to M&S about their Christmas advert.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I entirely missed this frankly bizarre letter of complaint to M&S about their Christmas advert.

Wish GB news would just give her the job.

[Woodleyclaret]

Everybody and his dog has an opinion as the best way to educate. Everyone has been to school and so knows what they're talking about(allegedly)
All governments of all parties have been guilty of given the fool in the cabinet the education gig
Often for 6 months before a cabinet reshuffle takes them elsewhere. Since Shirley Wiliams as education minister little changed
Gove even did the job till he got switched and you don't get much more incompetent than that clown .
Unfortunately there is no silver bullet just lots of often misguided options. As a teacher of over 40yrs I have taught in most types of schools and worked with megalomaniac heads and dedicated underpaid teachers in equal numbers.

[ksrclaret]

That letter surely can’t be real?!

[Quicknick]

Everybody and his dog has an opinion as the best way to educate. Everyone has been to school and so knows what they're talking about(allegedly)
All governments of all parties have been guilty of given the fool in the cabinet the education gig
Often for 6 months before a cabinet reshuffle takes them elsewhere. Since Shirley Wiliams as education minister little changed
Gove even did the job till he got switched and you don't get much more incompetent than that clown .
Unfortunately there is no silver bullet just lots of often misguided options. As a teacher of over 40yrs I have taught in most types of schools and worked with megalomaniac heads and dedicated underpaid teachers in equal numbers.

I, too, worked with megalomaniac heads. There seems to be a lot more about nowadays. I don't believe teachers are underpaid.

[daveisaclaret]

https://x.com/Miss_Snuffy/status/172039 ... 58544?s=20

Link there to her Twitter post of the letter.

She enjoys attention. Not sure that's a great trait for a teacher but I'm sure the braindead people who like her will think this letter is good.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Seems like another cry for help from her.

[brexit]

Interestingly, I occasionally show some of the threads on this forum to my European Colleagues, and they are astonished about the lack of well constructed arguments and the inability to accept others' view points. They question the British Education system, which is based on exam preparation and rote learning. European schools have a wider curriculum and encourage critical thinking skills.
IMHO we need more problem-based learning in schools and less traditional teaching. I remember my mate telling me that his A-level physics curriculum @ crgs or brgs consisted of copying out badly photo copied notes.

[CrosspoolClarets]

https://x.com/Miss_Snuffy/status/172039 ... 58544?s=20

Link there to her Twitter post of the letter.

She enjoys attention. Not sure that's a great trait for a teacher but I'm sure the braindead people who like her will think this letter is good.

You seem to be playing the woman not the ball there, as well as stereotyping everyone who agrees with her as braindead, which doesn’t seem the way to win a debate.

Leaving that to one side, the issue she was highlighting appears to be whether as a country we should be promoting selfishness or generosity, she clearly believes people have become more selfish in recent years and that attitude in general makes it harder for her to teach her kids the values she believes in.

She clearly has a point to me about the M&S ad, even if she did object to it a bit more strenuously than many would have. As for selfishness in general, I see more examples of this year after year and the country appears to suffer as a result.

[daveisaclaret]

You seem to be playing the woman not the ball there, as well as stereotyping everyone who agrees with her as braindead, which doesn’t seem the way to win a debate.

Leaving that to one side, the issue she was highlighting appears to be whether as a country we should be promoting selfishness or generosity, she clearly believes people have become more selfish in recent years and that attitude in general makes it harder for her to teach her kids the values she believes in.

She clearly has a point to me about the M&S ad, even if she did object to it a bit more strenuously than many would have. As for selfishness in general, I see more examples of this year after year and the country appears to suffer as a result.

I'm not having a debate, never mind trying to win one.

Big "if the cap fits" energy from your post.

[JohnMcGreal]

Interestingly, I occasionally show some of the threads on this forum to my European Colleagues, and they are astonished about the lack of well constructed arguments and the inability to accept others' view points. They question the British Education system, which is based on exam preparation and rote learning. European schools have a wider curriculum and encourage critical thinking skills.

That probably explains why no other European country has been stupid enough to vote itself into the gutter.

[evensteadiereddie]

Brilliant, JM, and not far from the truth.
Look at the crap that's been spouted over the London march over the past few days.
We have been trained not to question.
Luckily, plenty of us have rejected that.

[Colburn_Claret]

I, too, worked with megalomaniac heads. There seems to be a lot more about nowadays. I don't believe teachers are underpaid.

Is the problem, and I'm speaking as an outsider of the teaching profession, lack of leadership and poor training.
I left a factory where I worked for 10 years, where my boss was a great fella. He knew the factory inside out, very easy going, but hadn't got a clue about dealing with personnel.

I was fortunate to do an NVQ Level 4 in management in a previous job, which taught me so much, and obviously opened my eyes to all his errors.

My wife works for MENCAP, and has already switched houses due to endemic bullying. My daughter in law also works for MENCAP, she is also going through a similar issue. She isn't being bullied, but one of her co-workers is bullying a client. When she put in a complaint her boss made excuses for them, and then called them in for 'mediation'. Her boss is apparently a really nice fella, but again not trained for leadership. They get the positions because they can do the job inside out, but that leadership role, dealing with conflicts and disagreements, organising rotas etc is just completely absent. Chucked in the deep end to sink or swim, and the detrimental knock on affect this has on the staff is horrendous.
Do school heads have to go through extra training, or is it all down to whoever sticks their hand highest.

[Quicknick]

Is the problem, and I'm speaking as an outsider of the teaching profession, lack of leadership and poor training.
I left a factory where I worked for 10 years, where my boss was a great fella. He knew the factory inside out, very easy going, but hadn't got a clue about dealing with personnel.

I was fortunate to do an NVQ Level 4 in management in a previous job, which taught me so much, and obviously opened my eyes to all his errors.

My wife works for MENCAP, and has already switched houses due to endemic bullying. My daughter in law also works for MENCAP, she is also going through a similar issue. She isn't being bullied, but one of her co-workers is bullying a client. When she put in a complaint her boss made excuses for them, and then called them in for 'mediation'. Her boss is apparently a really nice fella, but again not trained for leadership. They get the positions because they can do the job inside out, but that leadership role, dealing with conflicts and disagreements, organising rotas etc is just completely absent. Chucked in the deep end to sink or swim, and the detrimental knock on affect this has on the staff is horrendous.
Do school heads have to go through extra training, or is it all down to whoever sticks their hand highest.

I am 6,000 miles away and have just got in from a few [quite a lot] beers with my wife. I'll attempt a coherent answer tomorrow, Colburn.

[Uwe Noble]

Over 80% of our pupils starting our school over the last decade have begun with no English…zero…four years into their life. On leaving school, in almost all of those years, they have left our school with cohort data that is in-line or often, above national averages in reading, writing and maths. We don’t make a song and dance about it and as before, we focus on enriching their lives in as many ways possible, be it through singing, sport etc.

Have you looked into this woman’s admissions policy in detail? Have you looked at what this woman has to say about social deprivation? You see, despite the area we work in, we never use it as a sweetener or excuse.

And why is progress 8 the only measure by which this person and her school is being placed on a pedestal?

As I say, we don’t run to the press with our start v end data! There’s far far far more to a child’s education and a school’s success than a set of progress data.

KB works in one of the most deprived areas of London. Progress 8 is the best measure for evaluating the academic performance of a school although it should not be the only criterion for assessing the overall effectiveness of education. Nearly 40 years working in secondary schools tells me that this woman is getting it right. I'd love to work for her.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

KB works in one of the most deprived areas of London. Progress 8 is the best measure for evaluating the academic performance of a school although it should not be the only criterion for assessing the overall effectiveness of education. Nearly 40 years working in secondary schools tells me that this woman is getting it right. I'd love to work for her.

You’d be able to hold the line with her.

[Quicknick]

KB works in one of the most deprived areas of London. Progress 8 is the best measure for evaluating the academic performance of a school although it should not be the only criterion for assessing the overall effectiveness of education. Nearly 40 years working in secondary schools tells me that this woman is getting it right. I'd love to work for her.

You've done nearly 40 years, Uwe?

[aggi]

KB works in one of the most deprived areas of London. Progress 8 is the best measure for evaluating the academic performance of a school although it should not be the only criterion for assessing the overall effectiveness of education. Nearly 40 years working in secondary schools tells me that this woman is getting it right. I'd love to work for her.

I think I mentioned upthread about the company she keeps and with appearances at stuff like the National Conservative conference it's no surprise that she's pulling in the Trump supporters.

[quoonbeatz]

She's an absolute danger.

[dsr]

She's an absolute danger.

If enough people share your views, then her school will close for lack of pupils. It doesn't seem to be happening.

[jdrobbo]

If enough people share your views, then her school will close for lack of pupils. It doesn't seem to be happening.

My views have been stated but in extremely simple terms (there are so many within the profession and available online), my views are this:

It’s not appropriate to demand absolute silence at all times for all pupils in corridors. I don’t think such transitions help children for every day life but my main view is that some pupils may have special needs and find it very traumatic. Remember, it’s ALL pupils, no exceptions.

I don’t agree with her constant references to the inner city…as I’ve alludes, the area I work in has been in the bottom 1% nationwide for social deprivation on numerous occasions in the last 20 years. Our pupils (almost all) start with no English and their exit progress is frankly ginormous (results above national average despite a four year English language learning deficit)….BUT WE NEVER EVER USE OUR AREA AS AN EXCUSE FOR OUR PUPILS. It doesn’t matter where they’re from: they’re all fantastic and we will endeavour to give every single one of them an equal opportunity to achieve their aspirations.

I absolutely don’t agree with this particular head narrowing the curriculum by removing access to certain subjects. Pupils should legally be able to access all subjects until they make their choices and when they do (make choices) they should still be able to choose music, design and technology etc… It is a fact that this doesn’t happen.

It is also well known that Ofsted inspectors were paid to come into their school, tip them off about the next inspection and provide an incredible amount of ‘inside information‘ about what to expect at their particular inspection, which duly and conveniently followed.

I don’t agree with the isolation rules they have around lunchtime provision.

I could go on (calling people lunatics online is a dreadful look for a Headteacher; quite intentionally lying about evidence she has given to frame her narrative whilst not seeing timestamps to the contrary and then not apologising is a poor look)… and on….

They get great results with a much narrowed curriculum! If others are okay with that (remember it’s illegal), then this is not a discussion for me. For the record, I’ve been very interested by the thread. Some really good discussions either way.

J

[brexit]

A documentary is set to air on Sunday night, covering the going's on in the Michaela School in Wembley, north London.

Titled "Britain's Strictest Headmistress" it shows the methods and daily running of this absurdly successful school. Many of us on here have been discussing Katherine Birbalsingh's successes as the eponymous headmistress.

I'm very keen to watch this and I'm sure it will be of interest to many others.

ITV, Sunday 22nd May 10:15pm.

Disappointed no leather or whips involved

[dsr]

My views have been stated but in extremely simple terms (there are so many within the profession and available online), my views are this:

It’s not appropriate to demand absolute silence at all times for all pupils in corridors. I don’t think such transitions help children for every day life but my main view is that some pupils may have special needs and find it very traumatic. Remember, it’s ALL pupils, no exceptions.

I don’t agree with her constant references to the inner city…as I’ve alludes, the area I work in has been in the bottom 1% nationwide for social deprivation on numerous occasions in the last 20 years. Our pupils (almost all) start with no English and their exit progress is frankly ginormous (results above national average despite a four year English language learning deficit)….BUT WE NEVER EVER USE OUR AREA AS AN EXCUSE FOR OUR PUPILS. It doesn’t matter where they’re from: they’re all fantastic and we will endeavour to give every single one of them an equal opportunity to achieve their aspirations.

I absolutely don’t agree with this particular head narrowing the curriculum by removing access to certain subjects. Pupils should legally be able to access all subjects until they make their choices and when they do (make choices) they should still be able to choose music, design and technology etc… It is a fact that this doesn’t happen.

It is also well known that Ofsted inspectors were paid to come into their school, tip them off about the next inspection and provide an incredible amount of ‘inside information‘ about what to expect at their particular inspection, which duly and conveniently followed.

I don’t agree with the isolation rules they have around lunchtime provision.

I could go on (calling people lunatics online is a dreadful look for a Headteacher; quite intentionally lying about evidence she has given to frame her narrative whilst not seeing timestamps to the contrary and then not apologising is a poor look)… and on….

They get great results with a much narrowed curriculum! If others are okay with that (remember it’s illegal), then this is not a discussion for me. For the record, I’ve been very interested by the thread. Some really good discussions either way.

J

The national curriculum is far too restrictive IMO. The whole policy of making school bigger and bigger, the size of small towns in many cases, is wrongheaded in my book, as is the idea that all schools should have the same curriculum. There should be much greater freedom of choice by both parents and schools and let state schools (just like in the private sector) specialise in whatever they blinking well want.

Put it this way. Between a schools which result in their pupils achieving less than the average for their peers, and a few which are doing outstandingly well, let's have a go at the ones doing badly before we try to do down the ones that are doing well. I wouldn't have a go at your school because the pupils are doing well but the teaching is different from Michaela School. You don't look at the schools doing badly and ask the good schools to copy them.

(I wouldn't particularly agree about the children who needs are so special that they not only can't remain quiet for five minutes, but it would traumatise them to do so. If they are so badly affected as all that, and are literally incapable of getting better, then perhaps the needs of themselves and all the other children would be better served by being in a different school?)

Has Birbalsingh ever used the inner city location as an excuse for her pupils? The impression I have got is that she does not accept excuses for her pupils, she demands high standards regardless. She does use the inner city status as a boast about how well the school is doing and how other schools might emulate it, but that of course is a totally different thing.

[dsr]

Actually I would do the same with teachers as I would with referees. Remove nearly all the non-teaching and non-refereeing experts who are looking over their shoulders watching their every move. Remove the national curriculum, or most of it, remove the Education Authorities, make Ofsted inspections last longer but have less regard for box ticking and more for good teaching, give the parents more choice in which schools they want to send the children too, and let the schools that can't attract pupils be closed down because if the parents think they are not good, then the parents are probably right.

Let the teachers teach. Let the "experts" mind their own business. Let the bad schools, and the bad teachers, go to the wall. Let the good schools thrive and (if appropriate) expand.

[aggi]

Actually I would do the same with teachers as I would with referees. Remove nearly all the non-teaching and non-refereeing experts who are looking over their shoulders watching their every move. Remove the national curriculum, or most of it, remove the Education Authorities, make Ofsted inspections last longer but have less regard for box ticking and more for good teaching, give the parents more choice in which schools they want to send the children too, and let the schools that can't attract pupils be closed down because if the parents think they are not good, then the parents are probably right.

Let the teachers teach. Let the "experts" mind their own business. Let the bad schools, and the bad teachers, go to the wall. Let the good schools thrive and (if appropriate) expand.

How would you assess the good and bad schools in this scenario (and good teaching for that matter)? You won't be able to have standardised exams (and obviously exams are a pretty blunt tool when there are lots of other factors to consider as well) after you do away with the curriculum, or if you do what is on the exam would become the de facto curriculum.

[dsr]

How would you assess the good and bad schools in this scenario (and good teaching for that matter)? You won't be able to have standardised exams (and obviously exams are a pretty blunt tool when there are lots of other factors to consider as well) after you do away with the curriculum, or if you do what is on the exam would become the de facto curriculum.

They had exams long before the national curriculum was invented. Teaching to the exam didn't start in infant reception class then,. and it won't now.

As for which schools are not good enough, that's for the parents to decide. They would be the ones that can't attract pupils. I do not like the school of thought that says education policy should be almost entirely in the hands of the politicians.,

[ClaretPete001]

The current educational vogue is imported from America with Charter Schools and the likes of DT Willingham and E.D. Hirsch with their core knowledge curriculum. Their argument has been that creative thinking is so dependent upon knowledge it cannot be taught external to knowledge and expertise. So, the Gov't and the likes of Miss Snuffy (KB) obsess about rote learning knowledge from a very early age. In many ways KB is a remarkable person but has lost all sense of perspective to ideological dogma.

What you now have is a sector that has the youngest workforce in the OECD by some distance and struggles to retain staff. Exposing this to the market would cause chaos.

Why we have 50 per cent of the population in education to the age of 21 when we can't fund care homes properly is beyond me? Actually, it's not I suspect that the mid 70s youth employment crisis meant that Govt's from Thatcher onwards used education to gerrymander youth unemployment rates.

And the result is that it has reduced graduate differentials everywhere outside London because we create more graduates than there are graduate jobs.

The Tories do not do things worse than Labour; they just do things differently as bad and the consequence is over the years we are losing all our traditionally excellent institutions and public services.

[Rowls]

The current educational vogue is imported from America with Charter Schools and the likes of DT Willingham and E.D. Hirsch with their core knowledge curriculum. Their argument has been that creative thinking is so dependent upon knowledge it cannot be taught external to knowledge and expertise. So, the Gov't and the likes of Miss Snuffy (KB) obsess about rote learning knowledge from a very early age. In many ways KB is a remarkable person but has lost all sense of perspective to ideological dogma.

For many years up until about 2010 the UK was sliding down the internationally respected PISA ratings systems.

Since the government brought in reform of the education system, we have begun to rise back up the ratings. We've made specific progress in reading following Michael Gove bringing in phonics teaching.

The countries who score highest in the international PISA ratings follow the teaching methods favoured by schools like Michaela: The have strong discipline, firm adult authority, knowledge based curricula and teacher-led lessons. If these methods are seen to be simply "in vogue" it is because they work and produce strong results:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50563833

Wales and Scotland, who have took their own route and did not follow the reforms that Gove brought in, were "dragging the the UK down" to the detriment of the UK's overall score but more importantly, to the detriment of their own children:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38230328

[Rowls]

There's obviously a lag in government policy taking effect.

Teachers need to learn new methods and the policy needs time to take effect.

The link I posted in the post above was from 2019 when the Conservative policy was beginning to take effect.

Here's a link from 2016 showing the previous downward trajectory:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38157811

[Rowls]

Another article from 2010 showing the previous downward trajectory.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11929277


Lord knows I don't think this Conservative establishment has achieved much and I don't think for a second they deserve to be re-elected but they've achieved a lot in terms of education. If Labour reverse the policies that have achieved a turnaround in education it ought to spark a public outcry.

[ClaretPete001]

For many years up until about 2010 the UK was sliding down the internationally respected PISA ratings systems.

Since the government brought in reform of the education system, we have begun to rise back up the ratings. We've made specific progress in reading following Michael Gove bringing in phonics teaching.

The countries who score highest in the international PISA ratings follow the teaching methods favoured by schools like Michaela: The have strong discipline, firm adult authority, knowledge based curricula and teacher-led lessons. If these methods are seen to be simply "in vogue" it is because they work and produce strong results:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50563833

Wales and Scotland, who have took their own route and did not follow the reforms that Gove brought in, were "dragging the the UK down" to the detriment of the UK's overall score but more importantly, to the detriment of their own children:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38230328

I didn't suggest Labour would do any better or should wholly reverse the last 13 years, however, empirically measuring a nations education system is notoriously difficult and Gove and Gibb placed much more emphasis on it than the previous Labour administration.

And of course, if you focus on rote learning knowledge then you will pass more exams due to the very nature of exams.

I wonder Rowls whether you really think rote learning a narrow curriculum to improve international standings is really what the education system should be doing? Is it anymore productive than traducing education to 26 years of grade inflation as though human intellect progress exponentially and can be proven to do so by GCSE exams as the previous Gov't did...?

The education system lurches from one ideology to another to its detriment and it does not enshrine enlightenment ideas and values as it once did...

Ironically, Nick Gibb the architect of much of this stood down yesterday.

[aggi]

For many years up until about 2010 the UK was sliding down the internationally respected PISA ratings systems.

Since the government brought in reform of the education system, we have begun to rise back up the ratings. We've made specific progress in reading following Michael Gove bringing in phonics teaching.

The countries who score highest in the international PISA ratings follow the teaching methods favoured by schools like Michaela: The have strong discipline, firm adult authority, knowledge based curricula and teacher-led lessons. If these methods are seen to be simply "in vogue" it is because they work and produce strong results:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50563833

Wales and Scotland, who have took their own route and did not follow the reforms that Gove brought in, were "dragging the the UK down" to the detriment of the UK's overall score but more importantly, to the detriment of their own children:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38230328

It's interesting you reference the PISA ratings. Beyond the Asian countries at the top the first and second European countries are Estonia and Finland who don't follow the teaching methods that "work" but instead employ a lot of those methods that you seem to preach against. It's almost like one size doesn't fit all.

On Gove's reforms, the phonics may be working (the PISA test scores have stayed broadly similar if that's a measure you want to use) but I'm less convinced by some of his other ideas. I suspect I see a lot more KS2 work than a lot of the people commenting here and I do wonder whether it is really necessary for a 10 year old to pick out a fronted adverbial in a sentence.

[Rowls]

It's interesting you reference the PISA ratings. Beyond the Asian countries at the top the first and second European countries are Estonia and Finland who don't follow the teaching methods that "work" but instead employ a lot of those methods that you seem to preach against. It's almost like one size doesn't fit all.

The case of FInland is indeed very interesting. There is a good deal of lag in education between implementing a policy and seeing the results of the policy.

Finland regularly topped the PISA rankings in the early 2000s but to understand what it was doing right then, you'd need to look at the culture that existed in Finnish education in the 1980s and 1990s. I don't know how to do that effectively TBH.

Another difficulty is that, until very recently, Finnish teachers were at complete liberty to choose the teaching methods that worked best.

This only changed in 2016-17 when a change in the law mandated the modern, "progressive" style of teaching.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education ... ework_2016

However, was Finland using more progressive (as opposed to traditional) teaching methods before then? I don't know because of the aforementioned reasons.

But what is known is that Finland has been slipping down the PISA rankings since about 2006. The rate of it's decline is really actually very alarming.

It still has an exceptionally well performing education system overall but clearly something has changed which has changed the trajectory of its results. It isn't just slipping down the list because other countries are doing better, it is scoring less and less each year.

Large institutions like national education systems take years to build up and years to knock down. The evidence would suggest that something that was introduced into Finnish education around the turn of the century has undermined its results.

To bring in a football analogy, suppose you or I took charge of Man City for a week. What would you do? I'd just turn up and tell them to train as normal and when matchday came around I'd tell them to go out and play their normal game. There's a good chance that "my" Man City side would beat the opposition but it wouldn't make me Pep Guardiola. However, if I was left in charge for weeks and months the results would begin to fail. The same applies to education systems - they can't be put right over night and they can't be demolished over night either.

The only thing that can be said confidently about Finnish education is that although it is still excellent, it is slipping alarmingly and the only clear change that has happened in recent years has been the implementation of the kind of progressive teaching ideas that KB and the Michaela School eschew.

On Gove's reforms, the phonics may be working (the PISA test scores have stayed broadly similar if that's a measure you want to use) but I'm less convinced by some of his other ideas. I suspect I see a lot more KS2 work than a lot of the people commenting here and I do wonder whether it is really necessary for a 10 year old to pick out a fronted adverbial in a sentence.

Yes, as you say: The phonics IS working brilliantly. It has been one of the few stand out successes this government has brought in.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more ... he%20board.

BTW please don't quote me on this but the reason that anybody "needs" to know what a "fronted adverbial" is (and I don't know BTW) is that by teaching this kind of grammar, it should help children to learn foreign languages more easily. I think that's at least one of the reasons but as I said, please don't quote me on this.

We're notoriously bad at teaching foreign languages but we're also uniquely disadvantaged because of the ubiquitous nature of English. Imagine how keen teenagers would be to learn French for example, if every blockbuster film, every top pop song and ALL the tik tok videos were in English?

[Rowls]

All the best to you, as well. I referred to her as a woman because this identifies with her selected pronouns. It’s a very interesting take that you make because, as I hope you already know, despite my dislike of her methods, I’m not one for going around and being derogatory about people. If I had referred to her as a lady, I suspect you wouldn’t have taken an issue. The fact that you did, makes me feel as though you are wanting to alienate people on your own thread....

Hi jdrobbo

Sorry for the delay responding - I only saw your reply a day ago. You've got the wrong end of the stick. It's fine to call a woman a woman (or indeed a lady). The issue was that I thought some people could interpret it as you circumventing using her real name. I wasn't accusing you of being dismissive or derogatory, merely pointing out that it could be taken that way. I've been writing out her full name on this thread but it's a lot easier to use KB or KBS, which is what I proposed.

It’s not appropriate to demand absolute silence at all times for all pupils in corridors. I don’t think such transitions help children for every day life but my main view is that some pupils may have special needs and find it very traumatic. Remember, it’s ALL pupils, no exceptions.

I really do not understand why you're so against this policy? KB has stated many times that it wouldn't be appropriate for all schools. They didn't start with this policy but they found that the discipline and authority of the classrooms was being undermined by bad behaviour and bullying in the corridors. Hence they brought the rule in.

Obviously it applies to ALL pupils. How would an exception work? It would be ridiculous to have silent corridors for "everybody apart from Johnny here".

I don't think there's any evidence of any children finding this "traumatic", whether they have special needs or otherwise. I'm sure that many dislike it, but could you explain how it is in any way "traumatic" to not speak for extremely short periods (a few minutes maximum) when walking in a corridor?

I don’t agree with her constant references to the inner city…as I’ve alludes, the area I work in has been in the bottom 1% nationwide for social deprivation on numerous occasions in the last 20 years. Our pupils (almost all) start with no English and their exit progress is frankly ginormous (results above national average despite a four year English language learning deficit)….BUT WE NEVER EVER USE OUR AREA AS AN EXCUSE FOR OUR PUPILS. It doesn’t matter where they’re from: they’re all fantastic and we will endeavour to give every single one of them an equal opportunity to achieve their aspirations.

I really have to pick you up on the assertion that KB mentions this "as an excuse". She does no such thing.

As far as I can see, she mentions it for two reasons:
1. When people question the stricter policies of Michaela school she puts the reasoning for the discipline into context: The children come from an area high in crime and disorder. In order to maintain order in the school it isn't enough just to continue with what passes as societal norms in Wembley - they have to impose order in an area that is high on gang related crime and disorder.
2. She mentions it in relation to the grades they receive. Not as an excuse, but to put into context their starting point - exactly in the same way as you.
I don't see her doing anything that you aren't doing - she is putting her work into context.

I absolutely don’t agree with this particular head narrowing the curriculum by removing access to certain subjects. Pupils should legally be able to access all subjects until they make their choices and when they do (make choices) they should still be able to choose music, design and technology etc… It is a fact that this doesn’t happen.

KB is completely unrepetentant about the narrow curriculum. She has stated that it ensures the children put proper focus into the core subjects that serve them best to progress in life.

Here is KB defending and explaining the reasoning behind the policy:

https://twitter.com/Miss_Snuffy/status/ ... 9972500644

Here is the Michaela School curriculum and it would appear to have many of the subjects you claim aren't there:

https://michaela.education/home/seconda ... m-wembley/

As criticisms against what is arguably the best school in the country, this seems a rather palid criticism.

It is also well known that Ofsted inspectors were paid to come into their school, tip them off about the next inspection and provide an incredible amount of ‘inside information‘ about what to expect at their particular inspection, which duly and conveniently followed.

I can't find anything about this. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. However, the Michaela School isn't averse to scrutiny. Not only does it receive many times more scrutiny than almost any other schools, it actively courts scrutiny and welcomes visitors every day to this end.

IF the school received information in advance of their inspection that would be wrong but it doesn't mean the school isn't still an outstanding school and arguably the best in the country.

I don’t agree with the isolation rules they have around lunchtime provision.

Fair enough if you don't agree with them but how would you enforce payment for lunch? If none of the parents pay for the lunches, the school would face a reported half a million black hole in its budget. The policy was brought in because there was a growing culture of parent's simply not paying for the school lunches.

You can read more about KB's defence of the policy here:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -isolation

It seems a reasonable policy to me. I think the impetus would be on people like yourself who are against the policy to propose a reasonable alternative.

I could go on (calling people lunatics online is a dreadful look for a Headteacher; quite intentionally lying about evidence she has given to frame her narrative whilst not seeing timestamps to the contrary and then not apologising is a poor look)… and on….

She doesn't always come across superbly on online platforms and perhaps should use them less. But she gets constant abuse thrown her way. Though I don't agree with everything she says, I think she is usually very reserved and polite online.

They get great results with a much narrowed curriculum! If others are okay with that (remember it’s illegal), then this is not a discussion for me. For the record, I’ve been very interested by the thread. Some really good discussions either way.
J

I can't believe that you'd remove yourself entirely from a debate because such a tiny difference of opinion. The Michaela School curriculum clearly conforms to the national curriculum so I'm not sure why you've made this into your hill to die upon?

[Rowls]

J

Hi again jdrobbo

I do have to say that as you're a teacher yourself it's no surprise you might differ in the kinds of techniques you and KB prefer.

However, given the amazing success she's achieved at Michaela School I would have thought you'd be more generous in your appraisal of her.

Given that, by the Progress 8 measure at least, she's run the best school in the country for two years running, is there anything you could think of where you'd be able to say something along the lines of "Well, it's not what we do in the school I work in for X reason, but it's clearly bringing in great results for KB at Michaela so fair play to her and the school and well done!" ?

As you can tell, it's something I'm very interested in. The Michaela School has only been going for a couple of years and it first year of cohorts will just be turning 21 (I think). I'm very keen to keep an eye on things as they grow up and enter the adult world.

I'm especially interested to look out and see how long the effect of attending an exceptional school like Michaela lasts. We already know that the children who are lucky enought to go to Michaela get better grades, are more likely to go to univeristy and are more likely to go to a better university but I'm interested to find out in the coming years if these children grow up into adults who avoid life's pitfalls and continue to be successful.

For example, will they be more likely to have better paid jobs? Will they be more likely to gain promotions? WIll they be less likely to be convicted of crime or anti-social behaviour? Will they have less problems with drugs, alcohol or gambling when compared to their demographic? Will they report higher levels of happiness in their lives? Will they be less likely to have poor physical or mental health?

If a good education like that at the Michaela school could achieve even a small change in the life outcomes of its children then, applied to a national level, the results could be truly breathtaking.

Anyway, I've written a lot tonight so I'll bid you and everybody else adieu and wish you a pleasant evening.

[Rowls]

For anybody else interested in this topic, the documentary that started this thread is now available online:

https://www.itv.com/watch/britains-stri ... ss/10a2923

I advise you watch it but I also advise you watch any episode of "Educating Essex / Yorkshire / the East End" as a comparison.

In the Michaela School you'll see children who are disciplined and who are receiving a traditional education. In the "Educating..." series you will be able to compare and see how this differs from a "progressive" education in schools lacking in discipline.

The difference in the behaviour of the children is stark. It isn't that the children are any different - the Michaela School kids would mess around and disrupt lessons in the same way if they could, it's simpy that the adults at Michaela have authority and won't allow it.

The teachers in all these schools are clearly all committed and nice people but the difference in the levels of disruption, backchat, smartness and the lack of authority on display in the progressive schools is stark.

Here's a trailer for Educating Essex but the full episodes appear to be freely available online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYKk4vY ... OurStories

[jdrobbo]

Hi again jdrobbo…
However, given the amazing success she's achieved at Michaela School I would have thought you'd be more generous in your appraisal of her.

Given that, by the Progress 8 measure at least, she's run the best school in the country for two years running, is there anything you could think of where you'd be able to say something along the lines of "Well, it's not what we do in the school I work in for X reason, but it's clearly bringing in great results for KB at Michaela so fair play to her and the school and well done!" ?

[jdrobbo]

Hi Rowls,

Yes there’s lots of good learning taking place, I’m sure. I can see fantastic Progress 8 scores, as already alluded but SHE’S BREAKING THE LAW by not delivering the National Curriculum. I do believe that the National Curriculum needs considerable change but that doesn’t give Heads the right to not carry out their legal duty in providing the full curriculum to their pupils. The fact that you or dsr can’t acknowledge this (it puts them at a significant advantage) makes it hard to have a balanced discussion.

With respect, if you can’t acknowledge that this is not appropriate, then it makes the discusses unworthy, and that’s not great because I’ve been genuinely interested by the thread.

[jdrobbo]

Apologies for the poor use of the quote function

[jdrobbo]

DSR said, in response to my comment about breaking the law by deliberately narrowing the curriculum…..

The national curriculum is far too restrictive IMO. The whole policy of making school bigger and bigger, the size of small towns in many cases, is wrongheaded in my book, as is the idea that all schools should have the same curriculum. There should be much greater freedom of choice by both parents and schools and let state schools (just like in the private sector) specialise in whatever they blinking well want.






I get where he’s coming from but that doesn’t excuse the choice being carried out. It’s not right