Mission to Burnley 2

[NewClaret]

He says, relating to the way we are doing things: "I do believe it can work, it absolutely can work." That's not silent.

Fair enough, I couldn’t remember the exact wording, but I think he then gave Brighton as an example of how it had worked and was shot down on that (their spend). After which he fell silent and was basically looking at his shoes.

My point being that his initial, quite weak, challenge was shot down immediately. Checketts wasn’t buying it. He was probably expecting the response. It’s good that we don’t have a load of nodding dogs in that room and that the strategy is being challenged and I took the silence at the end as an acceptance of his point.

I’d also say, in a Boardroom context, it’s incredibly rare and serious for a Chairman/CEO’s strategy to be brought in to question so forthrightly in front of other investors and his own staff at a Board meeting. Usually these pieces of “feedback” are given in personal conversations out of the wider glare. It’s highly embarrassing for that to happen so openly… to the extent I have to question whether that scene was staged but it was so fluid, and Matt read the wrong lines if it was.

Alan will have no choice but to reflect and adapt the strategy to address those concerns. I’m not saying he’ll abort the strategy, but in future it’ll have to address the feedback from the Board.

Which, I believe is a process that has started with the Parker appointment and change to Head Coach, wouldn’t you agree?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Lyle foster is captain material. Absolutely brilliant the way he cares and voices it. To say he’s only 23 /24 too. He’s going to be massive for us this season

I totally agree.

I have thought for some time that he might be one of the quieter members of the squad but actually that documentary totally changed my opinion of him.

He’s a leader and a top bloke.

Cullen as well massively impressed me, the way he challenged Fofana for running of the pitch at the end.

These are the characters that we build a team around. They will be the lads to win us the league.

[blatherwickstattoos]

I totally agree.

I have thought for some time that he might be one of the quieter members of the squad but actually that documentary totally changed my opinion of him.

He’s a leader and a top bloke.

Cullen as well massively impressed me, the way he challenged Fofana for running of the pitch at the end.

These are the characters that we build a team around. They will be the lads to win us the league.

Just shows how important Ashley Barnes was in that sense. Shame we didn’t get the behind the scenes footage with Barnes in the dressing room in the last series because I can bet he was very highly influential

[ClaretTony]

Fair enough, I couldn’t remember the exact wording, but I think he then gave Brighton as an example of how it had worked and was shot down on that (their spend). After which he fell silent and was basically looking at his shoes.

My point being that his initial, quite weak, challenge was shot down immediately. Checketts wasn’t buying it. He was probably expecting the response. It’s good that we don’t have a load of nodding dogs in that room and that the strategy is being challenged and I took the silence at the end as an acceptance of his point.

If Pace says it absolutely can work, that's how we will do it no matter what Checketts might say.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Just shows how important Ashley Barnes was in that sense. Shame we didn’t get the behind the scenes footage with Barnes in the dressing room in the last series because I can bet he was very highly influential

Totally agree. I’m sure they haven’t shown a lot of the dressing room discussions but I thought Brownhill and Berge were noticeably quiet in this season. Especially given both are supposed to be experienced pros in this young team.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Lyle foster is captain material. Absolutely brilliant the way he cares and voices it. To say he’s only 23 /24 too. He’s going to be massive for us this season

Probably the biggest revelation to come out of this documentary because it is different to what we have seen publicly in interviews (which is little).

Something not understood very well about people with depressive conditions - they can be very strong. I recall buying someone a book once to help them, called “Depressive illness, the curse of the strong”. The theory being some people can be so driven, so hard working, that it makes them ill because they don’t stop to draw breath, they keep ploughing on, trying to be all things to all people.

So it comes as no surprise to me that if Lyle can overcome his challenges he is one of our strongest leaders. Very pleasing. We had a period in the middle of last season where some of our main leaders (Lyle, Redmond, Cullen etc) were away from the group through injury or illness. No surprise we had a bad spell.

[Foshiznik]

Probably the biggest revelation to come out of this documentary because it is different to what we have seen publicly in interviews (which is little).

Something not understood very well about people with depressive conditions - they can be very strong. I recall buying someone a book once to help them, called “Depressive illness, the curse of the strong”. The theory being some people can be so driven, so hard working, that it makes them ill because they don’t stop to draw breath, they keep ploughing on, trying to be all things to all people.

So it comes as no surprise to me that if Lyle can overcome his challenges he is one of our strongest leaders. Very pleasing. We had a period in the middle of last season where some of our main leaders (Lyle, Redmond, Cullen etc) were away from the group through injury or illness. No surprise we had a bad spell.

The strongest of the strong are those who face up to their demons and admit they need help too.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Probably the biggest revelation to come out of this documentary because it is different to what we have seen publicly in interviews (which is little).

Something not understood very well about people with depressive conditions - they can be very strong. I recall buying someone a book once to help them, called “Depressive illness, the curse of the strong”. The theory being some people can be so driven, so hard working, that it makes them ill because they don’t stop to draw breath, they keep ploughing on, trying to be all things to all people.

So it comes as no surprise to me that if Lyle can overcome his challenges he is one of our strongest leaders. Very pleasing. We had a period in the middle of last season where some of our main leaders (Lyle, Redmond, Cullen etc) were away from the group through injury or illness. No surprise we had a bad spell.

Very interesting mate nice one for that. I hope he’s ok now because he’s a fantastic footballer and it seems a proper passionate leader. Was very proud of him when he spoke up and I can’t wait to see him fire us back up this season

[warksclaret]

Totally agree. I’m sure they haven’t shown a lot of the dressing room discussions but I thought Brownhill and Berge were noticeably quiet in this season. Especially given both are supposed to be experienced pros in this young team.

We are a very quiet team on the pitch. The only one that ever appears vocal is O Shea-if he stays for me he should be the captain as he is a bit of a warrior. Redmond was the other one from the footage that had things to say, and sounded frustrated with his colleagues dropping their heads.

One of the over riding things I picked up was the "fear and aggressiveness" generated by VK in that changing room, and knowing what snarl he would go into next. For young players playing in the toughest league in the world would have been very daunting

[NewClaret]

If Pace says it absolutely can work, that's how we will do it no matter what Checketts might say.

I disagree for the reasons I’ve stated in my replies Tony. I think I’ve put forward those arguments in my responses pretty clearly, and also outlined some examples of where he had already demonstrated he’s taking feedback on board and changing. You don’t respond to them, or my questions, so I think it’s fair to say your mind is made up either way we’re probably best just agreeing to disagree.

[ClaretTony]

I disagree for the reasons I’ve stated in my replies Tony. I think I’ve put forward those arguments in my responses pretty clearly, and also outlined some examples of where he had already demonstrated he’s taking feedback on board and changing. You don’t respond to them, or my questions, so I think it’s fair to say your mind is made up either way we’re probably best just agreeing to disagree.

You said he remained silent - he clearly didn’t. Look at the signings since.

[NewClaret]

Just shows how important Ashley Barnes was in that sense. Shame we didn’t get the behind the scenes footage with Barnes in the dressing room in the last series because I can bet he was very highly influential

We did get dressing room footage in series one and I can’t remember Barnes standing out, but that’s not to say he didn’t.

It would be my guess that he was also pivotal in that team. Maybe Tella too. He seemed a big character and very positive.

[blatherwickstattoos]

We did get dressing room footage in series one and I can’t remember Barnes standing out, but that’s not to say he didn’t.

It would be my guess that he was also pivotal in that team. Maybe Tella too. He seemed a big character and very positive.

the makers of the series said they had far more access this series than the last one. Sounds like a third series is also being made as Ive heard a few people who’ve taken their kids say cameras been down gawthrope most of the summer

[PremierLeagueClass]

the makers of the series said they had far more access this series than the last one. Sounds like a third series is also being made as Ive heard a few people who’ve taken their kids say cameras been down gawthrope most of the summer

I know some neutrals I’ve spoken to have found this far more engaging than the usual stuff that’s churned out.

[Row x]

If Pace says it absolutely can work, that's how we will do it no matter what Checketts might say.

Fortunately he didn't get his way with the drum, even though he was insistant on it
I wonder who talked him out of that one?

[Big Vinny K]

Fortunately he didn't get his way with the drum, even though he was insistant on it
I wonder who talked him out of that one?

Yet we still bought a drum.
Can’t remember whether we used it or not tbh - I’m trying to erase all memories from last season.

[NewClaret]

You said he remained silent - he clearly didn’t. Look at the signings since.

I did initially, noted your response, but he was definitely silent at the end. He looked like a schoolboy who’d just had strips torn off him by the headmaster.

His only response was Brighton blah blah and Checketts, probably primed for that exact response having heard it all before, said he wasn’t buying it. Unequivocally. Then silence.

On signings - I’d agree they’d suggest the same model bar Hladky. I didn’t say he’d abandoned his strategy, rather that is feedback he will have to take on board and flex it.

But I would imagine some of those were in process beforehand (like Jensen) and if so we’ve done the right thing honouring them. So I’d also hold out to see who else he lets Parker sign before drawing that conclusion. Rumoured links to Egan and Phillips are perhaps signs of a turning tide.

FWIW, I very much think the data-led recruitment process is the right way to continue. Being at the forefront of that is important and I’m glad we’re giving it focus. What I do think is that it needs an overlay of experience, a solid core of players not looking at us as a stepping stone (which was Checketts point) and players at the right age. 25, 26, 27, 28. Not so much in the Championship though, so I think the truth in whether feedback like that has been taken on board will be best reviewed if we get back to the premier league.

The bigger worry for me at the moment is whether we will.

[Row x]

Yet we still bought a drum.
Can’t remember whether we used it or not tbh - I’m trying to erase all memories from last season.

We didn't use it

[NewClaret]

Fortunately he didn't get his way with the drum, even though he was insistant on it
I wonder who talked him out of that one?

Good question on this. People above saying RB was a yes man. Maybe more credit due to him if he persuaded Alan not to do something he was insistent on. That was one of a few storylines I don’t think they closed properly. They should’ve recorded RB telling Alan that the fans wanted to shove a drumstick up his arse and his reaction At least then we’d know how it came to have been canned.

Remember CT posting that someone at the club was insisting on a drum and I thought he meant VK. Interesting to hear it was Pace.

Bad idea overall. I hate drums, although I think they were right to look at ways to improve the atmosphere. They just went about it the wrong way altogether.

Was funny to see Jordan North tell him they were “a bit naff”

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

The drum wasn’t used so someone obviously talked them out of it. Was an interesting watch thought some of the board members came across a little naive at times. I don’t think Parker will get the same kid gloves treatment Kompany was afforded should we get off to a poor start. I was surprised JJ Watt didn’t feature much in this series given how prominent he is promoting the club and town on social media.

[blatherwickstattoos]

The reference to using Ac/dc as the litmus test for creating a good atmosphere for me was the most worrying

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

The reference to using Ac/dc as the litmus test for creating a good atmosphere for me was the most worrying

Maybe time to go back to the late 80’s and bring back Tina Turner’s ‘Simply the Best’ as we walk out! Was that in place until Waddle came and changed it to Van Halen?

[daveisaclaret]

I don't think someone talked him out of using the drum, I think the overwhelmingly negative reaction from fans did. And after that he decided selling flags for £25 was the new solution to the problem.

[randomclaret2]

The reference to using Ac/dc as the litmus test for creating a good atmosphere for me was the most worrying

I wont rest till we're all clapping along in unison to " We will Rock you "

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I wont rest till we're all clapping along in unison to " We will Rock you "

No way the turf would manage it in unison!

[randomclaret2]

Maybe time to go back to the late 80’s and bring back Tina Turner’s ‘Simply the Best’ as we walk out! Was that in place until Waddle came and changed it to Van Halen?

Happy days for those who appreciated a bit of irony...

[ClaretTony]

Fortunately he didn't get his way with the drum, even though he was insistant on it
I wonder who talked him out of that one?

What worries me is the drum being there. We did benefit from Pace not being at the Palace game when it was set to be used for the first time.

[ClaretAL]

What worries me is the drum being there. We did benefit from Pace not being at the Palace game when it was set to be used for the first time.

Same here, my heart sank when I saw him unboxing it.

[blatherwickstattoos]

The whole atmosphere segment was pretty startling. It took a fan in a meeting to actually tell them it works both ways. The team try hard and play well the atmosphere improves.
They couldn’t get their heads around that or people leaving early.

They kept referring to American sports and the zany (bullsh!t) entertainment they have over there. It’s just not the same. We don’t need it and don’t want it.

The whole of the cricketfield standing and home fans only in it would absolutely raise the roof imo. I don’t think
They understand acoustics and how sound travels at all.

[Row x]

Same here, my heart sank when I saw him unboxing it.

Mine didn't.... As I knew it wasn't used

[Papabendi]

You said he remained silent - he clearly didn’t. Look at the signings since.

One of the first was JBG.

[JohnDearyMe]

Just watched the first episode.



Lee Mooney seems to come across pretty well but when he talks about the worldwide analysis and monitoring 300,000 players etc personally I just get the feeling that we have taken it all a bit too far away from the basics of needing quality and experience. You employ all these people and all this analytics and we ended up with a completely imbalanced team that was nowhere near ready or good enough for the Premier League. All feels very disjointed and lacking basic understanding of what was needed.

Think it’s going to be a hard watch this time round.

That bit stood out for me. Claimed to be monitoring 300,000 players but somehow didn't manage to find a viable left back to sign.

There's a whole industry that's grown around what is essentially still a fairly simple game

[Poulton-le-Claret]

The perfect clip to show how much VK had Pace in his pocket that he allowed this stuff to go on.

https://x.com/secondtierpod/status/1822 ... _K4Iw&s=08

[Row x]

That bit stood out for me. Claimed to be monitoring 300,000 players but somehow didn't manage to find a viable left back to sign.

There's a whole industry that's grown around what is essentially still a fairly simple game

We thought we had a left back, only for him to say no on deadline day

[Fretters]

Just finished episode 3 and Pace appears to have lost it at this point. Talks about winning the champions league. A staff member asks him what will happen to their jobs in the event of relegation, but he refuses to give an answer because we're staying up. Classic politician answer.

The Foster/Cork argument at the end is intense.

[JohnDearyMe]

We thought we had a left back, only for him to say no on deadline day

Yes that's why I used the word "viable"

[Blyclaret]

Absolute prick … to shout and use language like that. I’m not suprised he lost the dressing room. And thank god he’s gone.

[Newcastleclaret93]

That bit stood out for me. Claimed to be monitoring 300,000 players but somehow didn't manage to find a viable left back to sign.

There's a whole industry that's grown around what is essentially still a fairly simple game

Crazy to think that with 40 odd players on the books we have what 1 out and out left back as well.

Be interesting to see who he plays there later.

[NewClaret]

Just finished episode 3 and Pace appears to have lost it at this point. Talks about winning the champions league. A staff member asks him what will happen to their jobs in the event of relegation, but he refuses to give an answer because we're staying up. Classic politician answer.

The Foster/Cork argument at the end is intense.

That was, I believe, all tied in to VK’s push to remain completely positive within the BFC. I think that was a reasonable opening to the question and what I’d expect of leadership.

I think that question was answered (if off camera) that if people continue to do their roles their will not lose their jobs. I think someone also gave the same answer to the same question earlier in the programme.

I know that staff received multiple reassurances about their roles throughout the season anyway.

It was intense. Uncomfortable.

[NewClaret]

Crazy to think that with 40 odd players on the books we have what 1 out and out left back as well.

Be interesting to see who he plays there later.

That remains a real joke.

Same at CDM if you ask me, for several seasons.

Both areas I wouldn’t mind loans which underlines how bad the situation is given I hate loans.

[Foshiznik]

Crazy to think that with 40 odd players on the books we have what 1 out and out left back as well.

Be interesting to see who he plays there later.

I'd put money on it being Vitinho. Roberts at right back.

[Newcastleclaret93]

That remains a real joke.

Same at CDM if you ask me, for several seasons.

Both areas I wouldn’t mind loans which underlines how bad the situation is given I hate loans.

I’m amazed we still “haven’t moved out the fluff” (in VK words) yet.

The amount of players we are currently carrying that just have no chance of featuring is just unreal.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I'd put money on it being Vitinho. Roberts at right back.

I think your probably right

[ClaretPete001]

Haven't seen it yet . I have Now TV but is says it is On Demand for a week or so. I guess it will come on shortly or I'll have a faff and find it. Sounds very entertaining.

The problem when you leverage a club with some much debt is you start to make bad decisions because the consequences of failure are so high.

I was in Lytham the other weekend and a car had gone onto the edge of the sea with a trailer to pick up a yacht . Of course, they got stuck in the infamous Lytham sands with an incoming tide. As they inched back the tide was catching up with them so in desperation they started to drive into the sea to get a bit of a run at the beach. It got more and more desperate as the sea just kept rolling in. Checked out the coastguards facebook page after we got home and sure enough there it was up to it's windows in sea water.

For some reason this thread kind of reminded me of it. But then again as NewClaret likes to remind me I am cup half empty...!

[Row x]

Haven't seen it yet . I have Now TV but is says it is On Demand for a week or so. I guess it will come on shortly or I'll have a faff and find it. Sounds very entertaining.

The problem when you leverage a club with some much debt is you start to make bad decisions because the consequences of failure are so high.

I was in Lytham the other weekend and a car had gone onto the edge of the sea with a trailer to pick up a yacht . Of course, they got stuck in the infamous Lytham sands with an incoming tide. As they inched back the tide was catching up with them so in desperation they started to drive into the sea to get a bit of a run at the beach. It got more and more desperate as the sea just kept rolling in. Checked out the coastguards facebook page after we got home and sure enough there it was up to it's windows in sea water.

For some reason this thread kind of reminded me of it. But then again as NewClaret likes to remind me I am cup half empty...!

Are you sure it's not fully empty

[Row Z]

You said he remained silent - he clearly didn’t. Look at the signings since.

JBG and Hladky would be two examples of favouring experience. The core strategy won’t change to the extent we sign 33 years + players like Dyche, but the acknowledgement that the side needs experience or “men” as checketts put it. Likewise the links with Egan.

[blatherwickstattoos]

I wonder if that cleaner is still in a job ?

[Raconteur]

JBG and Hladky would be two examples of favouring experience. The core strategy won’t change to the extent we sign 33 years + players like Dyche, but the acknowledgement that the side needs experience or “men” as checketts put it. Likewise the links with Egan.

I may need to rewatch some of the series but i am quite sure that Pace did act on what Checketts said.
In one of the following scenes after the board meeting, it shows Alan Pace talking to Kompany and asking him
"who is going to be our nucleus"
Kompany replies with "Cullen and O'shea"

[warksclaret]

I’m amazed we still “haven’t moved out the fluff” (in VK words) yet.

The amount of players we are currently carrying that just have no chance of featuring is just unreal.

I agree-the season ended over 60 days ago, and in that time Vigoroux, Peacock Bailey, Muric, Bastian, and Churlinov are the only departures. I accept the manager needs to take a look at some of the fringe players, and we need to be mindful of current injuries, so can understand why McNally is still here as we only have two fit CH's and we are led to believe strong interest in O Shea. However surely Jackson knows some players well enough to have given the manager constructive feedback , and Parker should have seen some of them in pre season, training and camp to know they are not going to be playing for the first team. Weghorst, Obefemi, Twine, Delcroix, Egan Riley,Dodgson are never going to get near to that first team

[Fretters]

I wonder if that cleaner is still in a job ?

He's also the set piece coach.