Summer 2024 Transfer Window Discussion - Rumours and Links welcome

[alki claret]

Reports that he has agreed personal terms.

[boyyanno]

I’d like to see us go and reinvest some of this money on a couple of standout young players at this level.

The likes of:

Sunderland - Paterson, Clarke, Rigg, Neil
Norwich - Rowe
Coventry - Sheaf
Plymouth - Whittaker
WBA - Fellows

Just a few that spring to mind. I suspect we’ll bank £100m and spend peanuts on lesser replacements though.

I completely agree with this R:E how I'd like to see the money re-invested.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Made just the 1 start, 5 substitute appearances and Sevilla chose not to take up an option to buy at the end of the loan. Quite possible given the fact that United have also had very few suitors for his signature.

The fee quoted to Savilla was 20m no wonder they didn't buy

[Luppy]

If all of those players leave then I'd agree that this would be very unhealthy, but I'm surprised that you, and one or two others, are getting so anxious about things quite yet. Whilst we can be confident that Berge, JBG, probably Trafford and Weghorst will leave, and that we're likely to cash in on a few squad players in order to thin the squad and release funds (quite possibly Benson being one), I don't think we should be presuming all the rest of the first team squad who have been linked with moves will go. We can't stop clubs having an interest in our players, and clearly, we'll have asking prices for players, but as other players leave the asking prices for those who remain may well increase, or we may decide that other players are no longer available at all. That strikes me as a perfectly natural part of the process of looking to ensure the squad is suitably trimmed by the deadline (and ideally ahead of it so that Parker can put his stamp on the squad) - it's inevitably a juggling act. There's a lot of speculation and the social media journalists inevitably send this into overdrive, but it doesn't mean we're actively looking to move out all of these players.

As for Worrall, I think it's actually reassuring that we've got a contingency in case O'Shea does leave. Worrall has been a leader at Forest and whilst i'd prefer to keep O'Shea, if he leaves we need players who can add leadership, promotion know-how and also who can be relied upon to be keystones of the squad over a period of years, as saleable prospects come and go around them (this is a point Checketts made on Mission to Burnley and strikes me as a point well made and missed from the strategy 12 months ago). Worrall fits that bill well, just as Cullen did when he arrived 2 summers ago.

Calm heads needed. We've got a massive squad that needs trimming so the news players are leaving or might be leaving isn't a surprise.

This - some players will either become "unavailable" or departing only on our terms as it become clearer who is going and who is staying.

[Cooclaret]

Asking for what exactly ?

Letting a load of greedy yanks put the club in more debt than we have ever had in our history ?

Or spending £200m on building an over bloated squad that managed to scrape 24 points in one of the worst seasons to watch as a supporter in our history

Or is it buying 30 or 40 new players most of us have never heard of and would struggle to still remember half their names now ?

Or is it seeing players play for the team for half a season before we sell them to help repay the debt ?

Which ones of the above have we all been asking for ?

Just wants an argument, don’t bite fellas.

He’d argue the opposite just to get a response.

[kentonclaret]

The fee quoted to Savilla was 20m no wonder they didn't buy

They were unable to find a use for him during his loan period either other than a bench warmer.

[KRBFC]

I completely agree with this R:E how I'd like to see the money re-invested.

Paterson (if Trafford goes)
Roberts Beyer Esteve Pires
Cullen Brownhill
Koleosho Amdouni Clarke
Whittaker

That front four is scary, I believe in Whittaker I think he has attributes and the promise to do really well, think he’ll mature and grow into a central role, primarily used off the right at the moment. Reminds me abit of a left footed Ollie Watkins.

[RVclaret]

I’d like to see us go and reinvest some of this money on a couple of standout young players at this level.

The likes of:

Sunderland - Paterson, Clarke, Rigg, Neil
Norwich - Rowe
Coventry - Sheaf
Plymouth - Whittaker
WBA - Fellows

Just a few that spring to mind. I suspect we’ll bank £100m and spend peanuts on lesser replacements though.

I just can’t see it with the links we’ve had. This recoup of fees seems to be to recover from the circa £100m spend last season and £30m loss in the clubs accounts the season before.

[RVclaret]

Paterson (if Trafford goes)
Roberts Beyer Esteve Pires
Cullen Brownhill
Koleosho Amdouni Clarke
Whittaker

That front four is scary, I believe in Whittaker I think he has attributes and the promise to do really well, think he’ll mature and grow into a central role, primarily used off the right at the moment. Reminds me abit of a left footed Ollie Watkins.

Whittaker plays on the wing and Clarke would likely cost £20m. Sounds like we are going down the loan route with Sarmiento and Hannibal.

[FCBurnley]

Yes on BBC Also that we are loaning a young ch from Chelsea with a commitment to buy

[Rick_Muller]

It’s like we don’t already have a whole thread for this sort of thing

[Row x]

Whittaker plays on the wing and Clarke would likely cost £20m. Sounds like we are going down the loan route with Sarmiento and Hannibal.

Is there a proper link to sarmiento, or just a guess on here?

[AGENT_CLARET]

Whittaker plays on the wing and Clarke would likely cost £20m. Sounds like we are going down the loan route with Sarmiento and Hannibal.

Can't see a loan deal for Hannibal, his contract runs out at Man Utd in around 10 Months they'll want a fee

[elwaclaret]

I think there is a fair amount of smoke being blown out, I expect from within our own club. While some of the links will be genuine others will be smoke and mirrors… players being linked with moves that are not for sale, to smooth the reaction of other outgoings… players being linked who are not seriously being pursued so we can work quietly in the shadows on genuine targets.

Of the outgoings that look done/close so far I haven’t seen anything I do not think… “didn’t want to go, but a reasonable decision.” Quite happy with things so far and will keep my powder dry until we actually know what has been done in the window. One or two many have as through the door would still surprise me, as they do not seem to fit what the club seem to be trying to achieve.

[RVclaret]

Any latest news on the Kompany to Bayern rumour? Can’t be true can it

[Pickles]

Or is it buying 30 or 40 new players most of us have never heard of and would struggle to still remember half their names now ?

Well let's be honest, if we were limiting ourselves to only signing players people on this messageboard have heard of then our transfers this summer would be Glen Little, Andrew Driver, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and John Deary.

I reckon using scouting and data is a better recruitment route to go down rather than asking "Will xxxx on UpTheClarets be able to remember their name?"

[GetIntoEm]

Asking for what exactly ?

Letting a load of greedy yanks put the club in more debt than we have ever had in our history ?

Or spending £200m on building an over bloated squad that managed to scrape 24 points in one of the worst seasons to watch as a supporter in our history

Or is it buying 30 or 40 new players most of us have never heard of and would struggle to still remember half their names now ?

Or is it seeing players play for the team for half a season before we sell them to help repay the debt ?

Which ones of the above have we all been asking for ?

Do you think they pocket the transfer fees or something? Do you know how businesses work?

[FeedTheArf]

Do you think they pocket the transfer fees or something? Do you know how businesses work?

Well effectively they do pocket the fees. The loans were taken out for BFC to repay but the shares were for ALK. Every one of the loan repayments is due to ALK buying shares with BFC money. So effectively, every incoming transfer fee, until the loans and repaid, is going to them.

[Casper2]

Well let's be honest, if we were limiting ourselves to only signing players people on this messageboard have heard of then our transfers this summer would be Glen Little, Andrew Driver, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and John Deary.

I reckon using scouting and data is a better recruitment route to go down rather than asking "Will xxxx on UpTheClarets be able to remember their name?"

Will this be the scouting and data that couldn’t find a left back last season?

[Pickles]

Will this be the scouting and data that couldn’t find a left back last season?

I don't know and, I reckon, neither do you. Although Pires looks handy. But it's definitely a better route to go down than the alternative suggested in the message I quoted.

[Claret53]

In the short term, I believe that there is more than enough strength in the squad to give us a good season. Not long ago, the main concern was the bloated size of the squad: which still remains large.
I understand the apparent model of identifying and bringing in talent, with a view to selling on at a profit: rather a traditional Burnley model, with the difference that the scouting net is much wider.
Whilst VK’s team management last season appears to have been, shall we say, suboptimal, we have undoubtedly been left with a powerful squad.
My long term concern is that if we sell players who are good enough for, and have experience of, the PL we will have to reinvent the squad in 10 months time. At great expense.
So we need to think beyond this season.
It is vital that, whilst sales of some first choice players is inevitable, we don’t sell off the majority of them. A degree of stability is essential.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Paterson (if Trafford goes)
Roberts Beyer Esteve Pires l
Cullen Brownhill
Koleosho Amdouni Clarke
Whittaker

That front four is scary, I believe in Whittaker I think he has attributes and the promise to do really well, think he’ll mature and grow into a central role, primarily used off the right at the moment. Reminds me abit of a left footed Ollie Watkins.

I don’t get the attraction with Whittaker at all.

Watched him twice this season and he’s not remotely close to the talent we already have in that position.

[RVclaret]

I don’t get the attraction with Whittaker at all.

Watched him twice this season and he’s not remotely close to the talent we already have in that position.

Agree looks very lazy and doesn’t offer much on the ball. Long shot on him that’s about it.

[TheFamilyCat]

Well let's be honest, if we were limiting ourselves to only signing players people on this messageboard have heard of then our transfers this summer would be Glen Little, Andrew Driver, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and John Deary.

I reckon using scouting and data is a better recruitment route to go down rather than asking "Will xxxx on UpTheClarets be able to remember their name?"

We need a right winger.

Bring back Glen.

[BleedingClaret]

Just wants an argument, don’t bite fellas.

He’d argue the opposite just to get a response.

Not doing very well if he wants an argument
Because most wouldn’t argue with any of his points

[Newcastleclaret93]

I don't know and, I reckon, neither do you. Although Pires looks handy. But it's definitely a better route to go down than the alternative suggested in the message I quoted.

Tbf pickles I think your doing this board an injustice. Over the years there have been plenty of fantastic shouts.

I’ve seen people list loads of players that have gone on to have amazing careers.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Long term this transfer window will be good for us regarding this season, but I don't think it's going to do us any good at all for the Sunderland and B@stards game

[KRBFC]

I don’t get the attraction with Whittaker at all.

Watched him twice this season and he’s not remotely close to the talent we already have in that position.

Then go and watch him last season….


I don’t think he touched the ball first game of the season, he’d never stop getting the ball here. Looked disinterested, don’t think be wants to be there.

[Marney&Mee]

I've lost track here. Are we signing Driver or not ?

[Pickles]

Tbf pickles I think your doing this board an injustice. Over the years there have been plenty of fantastic shouts.

I’ve seen people list loads of players that have gone on to have amazing careers.

Not disputing that. Lots of knowledgeable people on this board. But the comment I quoted was criticising the fact that the club have signed players "no-one's heard of"... I'm not buying that as legitimate criticism at all.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Agree looks very lazy and doesn’t offer much on the ball. Long shot on him that’s about it.

I just don’t see the hype at all.

Looks a decent finisher but he’s not particularly quick, strong or good on the ball (technically). Honestly he would probably be fourth choice striker if he signed for us right now. I know he doesn’t player as striker but just referencing that due to KRBFC post.

[alki claret]

Apologies Rick didn't mean to break posting protocols..feel free to post update on the right thread.

Thanks

[Newcastleclaret93]

Then go and watch him last season….


I don’t think he touched the ball first game of the season, he’d never stop getting the ball here. Looked disinterested, don’t think be wants to be there.

I’ve watched him a few times last season (after I think Woodley was raving about him (might not be Woodley).

I don’t get the attraction you’re talking about 15m pound transfer and I honestly don’t think he even starts for us. In fact as our squad currently stands not sure Whittaker even gets regular game time.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Not disputing that. Lots of knowledgeable people on this board. But the comment I quoted was criticising the fact that the club have signed players "no-one's heard of"... I'm not buying that as legitimate criticism at all.

Fair enough.

I don’t think we have signed many players that no one has heard of either.

There’s the odd few but tbh you can pretty much watch every level of football now as a fan.

[Zom Zom]

I’d like to see us go and reinvest some of this money on a couple of standout young players at this level.

The likes of:

Sunderland - Paterson, Clarke, Rigg, Neil
Norwich - Rowe
Coventry - Sheaf
Plymouth - Whittaker
WBA - Fellows

Just a few that spring to mind. I suspect we’ll bank £100m and spend peanuts on lesser replacements though.

A bit unfair. We have indeed been happy to spend since Pace took over. It's been bonkers, the last two summers.

[GetIntoEm]

Well effectively they do pocket the fees. The loans were taken out for BFC to repay but the shares were for ALK. Every one of the loan repayments is due to ALK buying shares with BFC money. So effectively, every incoming transfer fee, until the loans and repaid, is going to them.

That's not how things work

[warksclaret]

Will this be the scouting and data that couldn’t find a left back last season?

Does Southgate use the same system

[Pickles]

Fair enough.

I don’t think we have signed many players that no one has heard of either.

There’s the odd few but tbh you can pretty much watch every level of football now as a fan.

No you're right. But my point was that even if no-one has heard of a player, that doesn't make them a bad signing. I'd trust the recruitment and data nerds at a football club more than your average fan. The majority of supporters wouldn't have heard of Benson, Vitinho, Foster or Koleosho before they were linked with Burnley. And they've all proved to be good signings in one way or another.

[GetIntoEm]

From the very outset, before Kompany ALK make it clear that the plan was to make the club profitable based on player trading, that's what's happening, and we seem be quite successful at it so far. If we can turn a profit this year and go back up, it'll be a massive thing

[warksclaret]

Any latest news on the Kompany to Bayern rumour? Can’t be true can it

Gathering PACE

[Big Vinny K]

Well let's be honest, if we were limiting ourselves to only signing players people on this messageboard have heard of then our transfers this summer would be Glen Little, Andrew Driver, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and John Deary.

I reckon using scouting and data is a better recruitment route to go down rather than asking "Will xxxx on UpTheClarets be able to remember their name?"

Probably worded it badly apologies.

I don’t mind signing some players I have not heard of. Especially when we also sign players I have heard of and rate really highly like Berge.

As said I probably worded it badly but it was more about the sheer volume of players we are signing and the turnover of players too which means it’s hard to get to know players or even remember their names when you see so many of them not involved or rarely playing.

[BleedingClaret]

From the very outset, before Kompany ALK make it clear that the plan was to make the club profitable based on player trading, that's what's happening, and we seem be quite successful at it so far. If we can turn a profit this year and go back up, it'll be a massive thing

Imo
The simple comparison of players bought and sold cost and declaring that as profitable player trading misses:
Agent fees
Player signing on fees
Player wages
Interest on the money borrowed to pay for and to pay the players
Interest on the interest of the refinanced money to pay for and pay the players
Sell on clauses so money back to the club we bought the player from
Payment to the army of the analytical team that advised us to buy for example Tresor for 18 mil or whatever ridiculous amount
All these to buy players that couldn’t put up a fight in the league we have to be in for the model to work
If anyone believes in true terms we made a profit on Berge I think your Naive
We only survive in the prem
We should have kept him to get back there
But we couldn’t because we need the liquidity because I doubt we can refinance the debt again without it being insurmountable

[Big Vinny K]

Do you think they pocket the transfer fees or something? Do you know how businesses work?
[/quote

Where have I said they pocket the transfer fees ?

How much do you know or understand about the finances at Burnley or our financial ownership structure ? My guess would be you understand very little of it but feel free to add your wisdom to the appropriate financial threads on here.

[ArmchairDetective]

I'm not sure that Hannibal only having a handful of appearances for Sevilla and them choosing to not sign him is a good argument for us not signing him. Sevilla will be looking at a far higher standard than what we need to get promoted from the Championship.

[Pickles]

Probably worded it badly apologies.

I don’t mind signing some players I have not heard of. Especially when we also sign players I have heard of and rate really highly like Berge.

As said I probably worded it badly but it was more about the sheer volume of players we are signing and the turnover of players too which means it’s hard to get to know players or even remember their names when you see so many of them not involved or rarely playing.

It's all good! Nothing personal. Just something I've seen mentioned a few times since ALK and I don't quite agree but then enough people feel it so must be something in it.

The model requires us to be more active bringing players in than most of us have ever experienced in our time supporting Burnley. Some of these players won't play much, some will and we'll get attached to them. But hopefully, all if not most get sold a few years down the line for profit.

It's dog eat dog. You either have a sugar daddy, a successful youth academy or you're canny in the market.

[GetIntoEm]

Imo
The simple comparison of players bought and sold cost and declaring that as profitable player trading misses:
Agent fees
Player signing on fees
Player wages
Interest on the money borrowed to pay for and to pay the players
Interest on the interest of the refinanced money to pay for and pay the players
Sell on clauses so money back to the club we bought the player from
Payment to the army of the analytical team that advised us to buy for example Tresor for 18 mil or whatever ridiculous amount
All these to buy players that couldn’t put up a fight in the league we have to be in for the model to work
If anyone believes in true terms we made a profit on Berge I think your Naive
We only survive in the prem
We should have kept him to get back there
But we couldn’t because we need the liquidity because I doubt we can refinance the debt again without it being insurmountable

It's not a simple calculation, but a legal publishing of a set of accounts where all these things are considered. That's where we will see if we've made a profit, not just Sales - Purchases.

[GetIntoEm]

By insinuating that they are greedy.

The club is operating well within it's financial means currently. Sure the club was bought through a leverage deal, but that's no different to lots of business takeovers.

Any decent size profits that ALK endeavour to make relys on that portion being paid off, or the club being worth massively more than they bought it for. It's simple accounting.

[JohnDearyMe]

Weren't there discipline and application problems with Hannibal at Sevilla?

He caused a lot of violent unrest across Italy too

[BleedingClaret]

It's not a simple calculation, but a legal publishing of a set of accounts where all these things are considered. That's where we will see if we've made a profit, not just Sales - Purchases.

I accept that but that’s not how it’s portrayed in general
Signed him for 15 sold for 25 with add ons
Is so lacking in detail

[randomclaret2]

He caused a lot of violent unrest across Italy too

That's the Elephant in the room...