Clarts vs Derby

[dandeclaret]

What would you call it if we had beat all those teams and currently sat 9 points clear at the top of the table- if not smashing the division?

I think the issue is.... if I've interpreted it right...... it's not about the results, it's about the entertainment value.

[Bordeauxclaret]

What would you call it if we had beat all those teams and currently sat 9 points clear at the top of the table- if not smashing the division?

Again, nobody is saying we should beat them all. It’s something else you’ve imagined.

What people are saying is frustration has grown over a period of time which has contained a lot of uninspiring performances.

[Clovius Boofus]

Did Parker come out and admit part of the responsibility after the game?

nope.

What a pathetic post. Mind you, not as bad your attention-seeking 'Dear Scott' thread.

[boyyanno]

I think the issue is.... if I've interpreted it right...... it's not about the results, it's about the entertainment value.

The thing is I can appreciate people's opinion who think we have played poorly.

I don't think we have been as bad as made out, but I don't think we played well in isolation. So if that's how Bordeux Claret feels then I don't know why he's responded to me.

I'm critical of the fans who aren't happy with where we are in the league.

If you suggest we should be beating the teams we've drawn with then you also suggest we should be top of the table and x points clear- probably on for a record haul. That's a ridiculous expectation to have.

[dandeclaret]

Agreed -we play a lot higher up the pitch and have more touches.It still is limited in creative flowing enjoyable football.
It doesn't feel much more than a couple of steps up from Cotterill
We wont know how we can compare the naivety in the Prem until we are back up there. my gut feeling is we will manage the self inflicted wounds with far more packing but they will still be the same wounds.

Come on Casper? Really? No more than a couple of steps up from Cotterill? Really?

over half of all passes by Burnley last night were in the opposition half.
36 touches in the Derby box
14 shots on goal, 10 from inside the box.

https://www.fotmob.com/matches/burnley- ... :tab=stats

[boyyanno]

Again, nobody is saying we should beat them all. It’s something else you’ve imagined.

What people are saying is frustration has grown over a period of time which has contained a lot of uninspiring performances.

You yourself just listed 4 fixtures that we drew and said we should have won them

[Bordeauxclaret]

You yourself just listed 4 fixtures that we drew and said we should have won them

Here you go, which part is saying we should have beat them all?

Again I don’t think that’s true either. I don’t know any Burnley fan that’s ever thought we should go and smash teams.

What we do have is an incredible financial advantage over other teams and because of that we have better players.

However we are failing to break down sides on a regular basis. Preston, QPR, Derby, Rovers with ten men, beating Plymouth and Swansea via pens.


Fans are bound to get frustrated when it keeps happening.

Or is it perhaps that the frustration has come from the amount of times it’s happened?

[boyyanno]

Here you go, which part is saying we should have beat them all?



Or is it perhaps that the frustration has come from the amount of times it’s happened?

"We are failing to break sides down on a regular basis"

That bit: and I can easily explain. You didn't want us to play better and get the same points did you? No- so what you meant was win, get the result, break them down, however you want to phrase it- but its still the same.

And again- if we beat those 4 sides instead of drawing with them we'd be top of the table and clear by 5 points.

So go back to the drawing board and again tell me how you don't think it's an unrealistic expectation. I can shoot you down all day bud.

[Guller Bull]

Come on Casper? Really? No more than a couple of steps up from Cotterill? Really?

over half of all passes by Burnley last night were in the opposition half.
36 touches in the Derby box
14 shots on goal, 10 from inside the box.

https://www.fotmob.com/matches/burnley- ... :tab=stats

I get all that with the stats etc and "the league postition doesn't lie" etc etc but it isn't an entertaining watch. We have looked better in patches recently but that was a massive step back last night. It's the lack of inspiration or individual gumption. It's just a drilled execution of a plan. Like I say it will no doubt get us back up (hurrah") but it's not a great watch. I admit I watch from afar nowadays and probably could have got down for the game last night but I am bloody glad I didn't spend hard earned dosh and time on making that trip. And that's where I am with it at the moment and haven't felt like that probably since Cotterill.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I’m sure you could keep shooting people down if you are making things up in your head and running with them.

Nobody is saying we should win them all, or smash them all or indeed smash the league. That’s just what you seem to want people to think.

People are fine drawing with teams and putting in poor uninspiring performances sometimes. Everyone understands that can happen in football at any level.

Where the frustration has come from is the amount of times it’s happened this season.

Feel free to make something else up though.

[boyyanno]

I’m sure you could keep shooting people down if you are making things up in your head and running with them.

Nobody is saying we should win them all, or smash them all or indeed smash the league. That’s just what you seem to want people to think.

People are fine drawing with teams and putting in poor uninspiring performances sometimes. Everyone understands that can happen in football at any level.

Where the frustration has come from is the amount of times it’s happened this season.

Feel free to make something else up though.

Ahhh the whole making things up one now.

I've got bingo!

[Bordeauxclaret]

I reckon you’ve imagined that as well.

[boyyanno]

I reckon you’ve imagined that as well.

Literally the last sentence you wrote on your comment.

Thanks for playing though.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Thanks, it was pretty easy.

[CrosspoolClarets]

There has been a bit of an improvement lately, but last night was back to square one. What frustrates me is the changes for changes sake. None of us are in the know on injury niggles, and maybe players dropped were precautionary, but the attacking changes both came on as subs so we have to assume tactical tweaks.

Boro took a lead against us and for 20-30 minutes we responded by being as dominant as I've seen all season. The team had a nice balance with 2 more orthodox midfielders and three creative players around an out and out striker. Not one player was a square peg in a round hole.

Last night it all gets ripped up. 3 orthodox midfielders, Sarmiento starting from the wing, but clearly directed to move infield as soon as we had possession. Flemming whose best position is behind a striker up front on his own. Pires expect to push up and be a left winger. No surprise that we had Flemming, Sarmiento, Brownhill and Laurent all roughly playing in the same space. Instead of stretching the pitch to make space it just felt like we condensed it. Derby must have been delighted.

I can accept as a manager that you get it wrong, but be pro-active and change it. Parker took an hour to make the first change, which barely changed anything. Then another 10 before he finally brought on an attacker for a central midfielder. The worrying thing is he's happy with what he's seeing.

This sums up my thinking.

The worry is that the last few games he felt way outside his comfort zone and has now reverted back to that at an early opportunity. He reminds me of Southgate’s England, good enough to get to a semi or final (in our case, play off) but not to win anything, despite the players having this in their capability. Take the shackles off we could fly, as England could have.

I just listened to the High Performance podcast with Thomas Frank, it was all about bravery as well as culture. I don’t see us doing the bravery bit, and even if we go up, we would score 10 goals a season in the EPL because defences would find it easy.

[warksclaret]

Despite being third in the table, a number of keepers who have played against us have had their quietest game this season-forget all the fancy stats. What does that tell us

[quoonbeatz]

We definitely played most of the game in the opposition half last night, just most of it was going left to right and back again. I’m not surprised we have a lot of passes in the opposition half, if anything we have too many.

Most of the time it’s not quick, incisive football; it’s pedestrian overplaying to work an opening in the most crowded area of the field. That’s largely why it’s dull to watch, so many unnecessary passes.

[boyyanno]

Thanks, it was pretty easy.

Strange that you lost then.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Strange that you lost then.

Life is easy if you keep making stuff up in your head and running with it.

[boyyanno]

Life is easy if you keep making stuff up in your head and running with it.

Life probably isn't that easy if you get rattled and can't respond to points so just run off and say wahh I don't understand so I'll just say he made somthing up.

[Bordeauxclaret]

You’ve unequivocally made stuff up on this thread in the past half hour.
I’ve explained it to you.

[Clovius Boofus]

Bordeaux, if I was you, I'd go and make a cup of tea or something.

[boyyanno]

You’ve unequivocally made stuff up on this thread in the past half hour.
I’ve explained it to you.

You've not though have you.

As per your last post, "the frustration is per the amount of times it has happened this season". Meaning failing to break down the opposition, meaning getting draws.

Seenashow results influence league position, it seems logical to suggest that if you think we should have won more games then you think we should be top of the table- you listed 4 fixtures as an example- I explained had we won them all where we would be- you didn't like it.

That might be called "making things up" in BordeuxClaret land, but it's really far from it.

If you lack the ability to see how one thing effects another then it's not really my fault is it.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I will refer you to my earlier post -

“Nobody is saying we should win them all, or smash them all or indeed smash the league. That’s just what you seem to want people to think.

People are fine drawing with teams and putting in poor uninspiring performances sometimes. Everyone understands that can happen in football at any level.

Where the frustration has come from is the amount of times it’s happened this season.”

And go and have a cup of tea.

[boyyanno]

I will refer you to my earlier post -

“Nobody is saying we should win them all, or smash them all or indeed smash the league. That’s just what you seem to want people to think.

People are fine drawing with teams and putting in poor uninspiring performances sometimes. Everyone understands that can happen in football at any level.

Where the frustration has come from is the amount of times it’s happened this season.”

And go and have a cup of tea.

And again you've just not responded to my point because you can't.

If you can't reply please just leave the thread and stop turning it into some form of silly argument.

[burnley007]

So.
There are people on here who are so behind Parker that they become furious with rage and abuse fellow posters that even consider him to not be good enough. I find that genuinely incredible. I really do.
I can understand why people think that giving him time is a reasonable option, but people who cannot bear to hear anyone saying anything bad about him is just weird.

But millions voted for Trump, so people are hard to understand generally.

[burnley007]

And again you've just not responded to my point because you can't.

If you can't reply please just leave the thread and stop turning it into some form of silly argument.

Starting to sound like a Python sketch...

[Bordeauxclaret]

The rub of the issue is that I don’t think you are getting my point.

[RVclaret]

So.
There are people on here who are so behind Parker that they become furious with rage and abuse fellow posters that even consider him to not be good enough. I find that genuinely incredible. I really do.
I can understand why people think that giving him time is a reasonable option, but people who cannot bear to hear anyone saying anything bad about him is just weird.

But millions voted for Trump, so people are hard to understand generally.

Can you stop with the ‘abuse’ cry, it’s getting embarrassing, almost as embarrassing as your apology thread started last week which lasted a week in its meaning.

[boyyanno]

The rub of the issue is that I don’t think you are getting my point.

I get your point.

You don't think we've played well enough in a number of fixtures.

My point is that if we had played better in those fixtures we would have got improved results. Improved results would have seen us higher in the table. We're already third so it stands to reason that if you ain't happy now then you want us to be at the top of the pile- because they are the teams that achieve results more consistently than we are doing.

Wether you accept it or not it's not just as simple as saying we should have played better in more or x fixtures without acknowledging that if we had then we would have a different league position.

And before you say "you've made that up" here is what you posted"

People are fine drawing with teams and putting in poor uninspiring performances sometimes. Everyone understands that can happen in football at any level.

Where the frustration has come from is the amount of times it’s happened this season.”

To summarise: if it had happened fewer times we would be first, back to my initial point- I don't think it's realistic to expect. It's really that simple.

[elwaclaret]

Of course they were trying to win.

Where did I say they were not trying to win?

[Quicknick]

Where did I say they were not trying to win?

Quote: ... we should at least look like we are trying to...
Okay, this doesn't mean they were not trying, now I read it again, but it's still an odd thing to say. How can you be trying to win but not look like you are?

[Bordeauxclaret]

I get your point.

You don't think we've played well enough in a number of fixtures.

My point is that if we had played better in those fixtures we would have got improved results. Improved results would have seen us higher in the table. We're already third so it stands to reason that if you ain't happy now then you want us to be at the top of the pile- because they are the teams that achieve results more consistently than we are doing.

Wether you accept it or not it's not just as simple as saying we should have played better in more or x fixtures without acknowledging that if we had then we would have a different league position.

And before you say "you've made that up" here is what you posted"

People are fine drawing with teams and putting in poor uninspiring performances sometimes. Everyone understands that can happen in football at any level.

Where the frustration has come from is the amount of times it’s happened this season.”

To summarise: if it had happened fewer times we would be first, back to my initial point- I don't think it's realistic to expect. It's really that simple.

I’ll apologise for the flippancy in my earlier posts as it adds nothing so I’ll hold my hand up there.

Your first post which I replied to suggested people were sharpening pitchforks after two draws and that it was unrealistic to expect us to get to a point where we are beating sides 5-0.

My reply was that I thinks it’s more just frustration than sharpening pitchforks, not everyone obviously as you’ll always get people with extreme opinions.
Frustration that has been bourne over a sustained period of time, not just on two results (one of which I thought we played well and a point was a deserved result)

Now this doesn’t mean I expect us to win every game. I genuinely don’t even the most extreme Burnley fans would think this. It’s certainly possible to play well and not win (Friday) but we need to see more from Parker and his team during games.

My expectations are certainly higher than the dull uninspiring performances which we’ve seen over a period of time.

I don’t believe there is anyway of getting away from the fact they are dull either, just looking round various threads you can see plenty of people losing interest in attending.
Quite worrying.

[ChorltonCharlie]

I get your point.

You don't think we've played well enough in a number of fixtures.

My point is that if we had played better in those fixtures we would have got improved results. Improved results would have seen us higher in the table. We're already third so it stands to reason that if you ain't happy now then you want us to be at the top of the pile- because they are the teams that achieve results more consistently than we are doing.

Wether you accept it or not it's not just as simple as saying we should have played better in more or x fixtures without acknowledging that if we had then we would have a different league position.

And before you say "you've made that up" here is what you posted"

People are fine drawing with teams and putting in poor uninspiring performances sometimes. Everyone understands that can happen in football at any level.

Where the frustration has come from is the amount of times it’s happened this season.”

To summarise: if it had happened fewer times we would be first, back to my initial point- I don't think it's realistic to expect. It's really that simple.

I believe the issue here is that Bordeaux's comments are being taken out of context, hopefully not deliberately. To paraphrase, the impression given is that by expecting fewer uninspiring performances, we should see better results. While this is the desired outcome, it is not guaranteed. Various factors influence results, such as a great performance by the opposition's goalkeeper, strong defensive tactics by the other team, or conceding goals on the counterattack despite scoring ourselves.

The ongoing debate this season has been about the sustainability of our results based on our performances. Improved performances, even if they result in draws or losses, indicate that we are on the right track. In my opinion currently, our results exceed what our performances would merit, not by much but a few games sprint to mind. While there is nothing wrong with being fortunate, it is important to recognise that this luck may not continue.

We are about to face a challenging period with eight games, six of which are against teams in the top seven. If we perform as we did last night, the next six weeks will be difficult. We are in a similar position to mid-November, and we need to see improvements in our performances to avoid falling behind the frontrunners. We had a few games where we showed progress, so let's hope last night's performance was just a blip.

[Cirrus_Minor]

No matter how much we dress it up we were no way near good enough last night against a very poor Derby side. For some reason we found it more difficult to pass and control the ball last night in fairly decent conditions than we did last Friday in pouring rain and a howling gale. Any time we got near their penalty area we seemed to lose ideas. I don't usually pick out individuals but both Anthony and Flemming need to have a word with themselves today.

[boyyanno]

I believe the issue here is that Bordeaux's comments are being taken out of context, hopefully not deliberately. To paraphrase, the impression given is that by expecting fewer uninspiring performances, we should see better results. While this is the desired outcome, it is not guaranteed. Various factors influence results, such as a great performance by the opposition's goalkeeper, strong defensive tactics by the other team, or conceding goals on the counterattack despite scoring ourselves.

The ongoing debate this season has been about the sustainability of our results based on our performances. Improved performances, even if they result in draws or losses, indicate that we are on the right track. In my opinion currently, our results exceed what our performances would merit, not by much but a few games sprint to mind. While there is nothing wrong with being fortunate, it is important to recognise that this luck may not continue.

We are about to face a challenging period with eight games, six of which are against teams in the top seven. If we perform as we did last night, the next six weeks will be difficult. We are in a similar position to mid-November, and we need to see improvements in our performances to avoid falling behind the frontrunners. We had a few games where we showed progress, so let's hope last night's performance was just a blip.

I'm not taking BordeuxClarets comments out of context. I admit that I am making the conclusion that improved performances would equal more results but I think that's reasonable to suggest given even in a lot of the draws we have been the better side (without being good in a lot of them).

I don't think this team is good enough to be a league winner yet, certainly not with what we've had available. If we're not going to be one of those sides then It stands to reason that we will lose points and put in a number of poorer performances over the season.

I don't know what the "right" amount of those is- but the reality is that we've been incredibly fortunate over our last 3 times in this division to have had very few of them, but that's because we finished 1st, 1st and 2nd. That's not my level of expectation for this season right now and as a result I can understand why we have 3 wins and 2 draws on the board in the last 5 instead of 5 wins. But I still don't think the margins have been that big.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Thanks Chorlton. Could have done with you an hour earlier.

If we’d have come off any combination of those 0-0 draws and thought we’d had a real go at winning those games I don’t think we’d have seen as much frustration.

I’m certainly coming off them thinking we’ve haven’t done nearly enough and that all adds up.

[elwaclaret]

Quote: ... we should at least look like we are trying to...
Okay, this doesn't mean they were not trying, now I read it again, but it's still an odd thing to say. How can you be trying to win but not look like you are?

Immediately springing to mind, not playing a striker. Lack of movement for set pieces to pull the Derby lines out of shape. Not committing fully in 50/50 balls and generally allowing yourselves to be bullied.

[123EasyasBFC]

So.
There are people on here who are so behind Parker that they become furious with rage and abuse fellow posters that even consider him to not be good enough. I find that genuinely incredible. I really do.
I can understand why people think that giving him time is a reasonable option, but people who cannot bear to hear anyone saying anything bad about him is just weird.

But millions voted for Trump, so people are hard to understand generally.

Had you constructively explained that you didn’t rate Parker as a manager then you wouldn’t have faced so much backlash. It’s the constant comments on every single thread the second Parker was announced and then the creating of variations of Parker out threads.