Boring Burnley!

[NewClaret]

Just on style, I’ve said before, that second half of Kompany’s premier league season I thought we were okay. We were picking up points, not enough but I did enjoy watching the patterns of play and build up, we just weren’t quite good enough to stick them away. Man United away being one that sticks out in my mind as one we had loads of chances we created but didn’t stick any away (so did they).

Point of me saying this is even at Leeds there were one or two moves that were very good and looked straight from the training ground but poorly executed.

My point is you can see there’s an improvement and you can see he’s trying to get us playing some better stuff. If we went up and got some more quality in the side, I think we’d be much better to watch than people expect. And even if we stay down you’d expect both an improvement for the rest of the season and definitely next year with a second pre-season under our belts.

[dsr]

And that argument is totally debunked by Spijed's table above, showing an increase in attendance this year, compared to the last championship season.

At least 90% of the official attendance either bought their tickets before the manager was appointed, or are away supporters.

[TheFamilyCat]

At least 90% of the official attendance either bought their tickets before the manager was appointed, or are away supporters.

And the attendances are tickets sold rather than actual bums on seats aren't they?

[claretonthecoast1882]

At least 90% of the official attendance either bought their tickets before the manager was appointed, or are away supporters.

Luckily for everyone the early bird period is up soon, we can then put to bed this stupid notion loads have walked away, or wouldn't have renewed had they known Parker was going to be manager.

[BurnleyFC]

Let's see if the board agree with that when alcohol, food, corporate, walk-ons, ticket sales and season ticket take-ups decline over the next year or so!

One of the main reasons they potted a previous manager was because they could see declining crowds when we were in the Premier League in my opinion and if anyone thinks that winning is the only reason for fans to stay loyally, especially younger fans, then they are incredibly naive and are taking support for granted.

The number of times I have heard fans I know say that they would rather spend their hard-earned money going for a meal or similar rather than watching us seems to be growing too. Many blokes would rather go out with their wife than watch Burnley lol, that's how bad it has got.

I know loads who are opting out at the moment, including my 18-year-old son and all his mates and he has been a fan for 10 years! There is zero chance that we keep our fan base playing this type of football at home, let alone expand it and the board isn't stupid, they will know that.

Younger fans today have so many more options and it is far harder to gain their loyalty, they don't have that tribalism, support-at-all-costs mentality that the older generation has... Fans in general are getting older and over 40% of people between 13 and 23 are saying that they're not interested in sport at all, it's a ticking timebomb!

I reckon season tickets next year will sell out regardless of which division we’re in.

[Holtyclaret]

Now that is a slightly better comparison but still silly... It is fairer to compare Parker to the SD era I suppose but definitely not to compare it to a Premier League season, that's just daft...

Instead, let's compare us to SD and VKs Championship promotion seasons and then see where your stats are at lol... In fact, don't bother, they blow this comparable season in terms of a promotion push and being contenders out of the water for most attacking stats.

The only stats that actually mean anything are points total and goal difference, the rest were concocted to aid those addicted to gambling

Both of which for us this season are excellent, particularly in context of our recent history.

[KRBFC]

Our games last season averaged over 3 goals per game, I take it you were entertained with that ?

Imagine comparing this low standard league with the Premier League

[Goliath]

And that argument is totally debunked by Spijed's table above, showing an increase in attendance this year, compared to the last championship season.

That table is an absolute nonsense and debunks nothing

[LincsWoldsClaret]

If it was purely a results business then the players would be paid on results. They’re not. The justification for their salaries has always come from comparisons to performers in entertainment industries who entertain similar numbers.

Managers are in a results business - which is why their salaries are smaller and more prone to sudden endings

[claretonthecoast1882]

Imagine comparing this low standard league with the Premier League

I guess in your head this made sense

[kentonclaret]

I cannot wait for the Monday night football on 24 February Sheffield United v Leeds United.
Should be a real cracker with both teams going hell for leather for the win and the 3 points. I reckon 5-4 with end to end goalmouth action.

[Row x]

Let's see if the board agree with that when alcohol, food, corporate, walk-ons, ticket sales and season ticket take-ups decline over the next year or so!

One of the main reasons they potted a previous manager was because they could see declining crowds when we were in the Premier League in my opinion and if anyone thinks that winning is the only reason for fans to stay loyally, especially younger fans, then they are incredibly naive and are taking support for granted.

The number of times I have heard fans I know say that they would rather spend their hard-earned money going for a meal or similar rather than watching us seems to be growing too. Many blokes would rather go out with their wife than watch Burnley lol, that's how bad it has got.

I know loads who are opting out at the moment, including my 18-year-old son and all his mates and he has been a fan for 10 years! There is zero chance that we keep our fan base playing this type of football at home, let alone expand it and the board isn't stupid, they will know that.

Younger fans today have so many more options and it is far harder to gain their loyalty, they don't have that tribalism, support-at-all-costs mentality that the older generation has... Fans in general are getting older and over 40% of people between 13 and 23 are saying that they're not interested in sport at all, it's a ticking timebomb!

If the 40% are not interested in sport, they are not going to attend whatever style of play.

[Spijed]

That table is an absolute nonsense and debunks nothing

Every attendance at every football match is therefore wrong as those figures are based on what every club announces

[Goliath]

Every attendance at every football match is therefore wrong as those figures are based on what every club announces

Well I'm not saying the figure is wrong, I'm saying it's totally meaningless in terms of understanding how the current style of play is affecting attendances.

[NL Claret]

Sky Sports + , cost and KO times are a major influence on attendances. It is not just a Burnley thing and isn't a stick for those with an agenda against Parker.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Well I'm not saying the figure is wrong, I'm saying it's totally meaningless in terms of understanding how the current style of play is affecting attendances.

How many do you think haven't renewed roughly ?

[JohnMcGreal]

It's all well and good dismissing criticism about our style of play by saying it's a results business.

But if the season ends tomorrow we don't get promoted. We're in a bun fight with three other teams.

So while results are largely positive, I think we should be doing a bit better.

Luckily there's plenty of time yet.

[Goliath]

How many do you think haven't renewed roughly ?

I've no idea, maybe everyone has but that's a better yardstick surely.
If we are promoted the whole debate becomes a bit irrelevant for now.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I've no idea, maybe everyone has but that's a better yardstick surely.
If we are promoted the whole debate becomes a bit irrelevant for now.

The early bird period ends in a few days when those renewing don't know which division we will be in next season.

You would expect quite a lot to have decided not to surely with it being so bad

[Rileybobs]

The Guardian Football Weekly is a great podcast. I had this on on my drive to work this morning and thought the coverage was fair. They commended our excellent defence, particularly Trafford, Egan-Riley and Esteve whilst being critical of our extraordinary number of 0-0's and general lack of goals. I found the analysis of the Leeds game to be completely fair with a touch of humour about us being boring to watch, which would surely only upset the more sensitive souls.

[Row x]

The early bird period ends in a few days when those renewing don't know which division we will be in next season.

You would expect quite a lot to have decided not to surely with it being so bad

Most of the season ticket holders round me on Monday seemed relatively happy with the result, so I can't see those not renewing

[ralph8]

Like all Clarets fans, waiting for the goals to start flowing - no way will fans give up their seat if they can help it.
The normal scramble for seats will take place at the end of the season if we are promoted.

[jlup1980]

I agree that we are pragmatic in the extreme, but are we boring? We're a watered down version of Southgate's England, but Southgate had the likes of Kane, Saka and Bellingham to produce moments of quality. We don't have that.

If we had fully fit, and fully focused players like Benson, Tresor, Redmond, Ramsey available we'd likely be a bit more entertaining. As it is we've basically played 29 games with one winger and no striker. Koleosho and Foster have been particularly disappointing, meaning we've struggled to put the ball in the net as much as we'd like.

The flip side to that is we've needed to keep the ball out of our own net, and fortunately we've proved to be a formidable defensive team - Italian catenaccio style. We completely nullified mighty Leeds, which actually makes you question how good they really are. We never looked like conceding on Monday night.

Back to the boring comment. Personally I was more bored last season. Every week was the same and I lost count of how many games were over after 15 minutes. That's boring. And least there's points to play for until the last minute!

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Back to the boring comment. Personally I was more bored last season. Every week was the same and I lost count of how many games were over after 15 minutes. That's boring. And least there's points to play for until the last minute!

Yes I definitely agree with this last point in particular. Give me this season over VKs suicide football in the PL any day of the week. Only 1 set of fans were entertained last season and it was not us.

[TheFamilyCat]

I agree that we are pragmatic in the extreme, but are we boring? We're a watered down version of Southgate's England, but Southgate had the likes of Kane, Saka and Bellingham to produce moments of quality. We don't have that.

If we had fully fit, and fully focused players like Benson, Tresor, Redmond, Ramsey available we'd likely be a bit more entertaining. As it is we've basically played 29 games with one winger and no striker. Koleosho and Foster have been particularly disappointing, meaning we've struggled to put the ball in the net as much as we'd like.

The flip side to that is we've needed to keep the ball out of our own net, and fortunately we've proved to be a formidable defensive team - Italian catenaccio style. We completely nullified mighty Leeds, which actually makes you question how good they really are. We never looked like conceding on Monday night.

Back to the boring comment. Personally I was more bored last season. Every week was the same and I lost count of how many games were over after 15 minutes. That's boring. And least there's points to play for until the last minute!

I think Leeds' tactics nullified themselves on Monday.

[BigChaCha]

by Row x » Wed Jan 29, 2025 12:21 pm

If the 40% are not interested in sport, they are not going to attend whatever style of play.

You are missing the point entirely and coming from the wrong angle... It is not the 40% you should be concerned about... It is the current 60%, a rapidly-shrinking percentage of young people that are interested in sport that needs looking after in terms of entertainment and pricing etc.

[BigChaCha]

by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:28 am

Upset ? jesus, we drew a game which everyone would have taken a point from. Had we drawn 5-5 would you less upset or even happy with gaining a point from a 10 goal draw ? Were you ok with the result, performance and entertainment level from the game just 5 days earlier ?

As for my lad has stop going, then lets sack Parker.

Monday was also the biggest home attendance of the season.

This is what I mean by people stating silly extremes to fit a narrative... We struggle to score one goal at home, never mind five and who has mentioned sacking Parker, not me and nobody else in the comments as far as I can see... Again, these silly childish extremes...

Of course, Monday was always going to our biggest attendance, with season tickets sold before watching the dull football on offer at home this season and with Leeds having the biggest away following so far and with Leeds fans in the home end...

It is not rocket science is it and has absolutely nothing to do with the style of play so far this season, which takes time to filter through to the attendances... I would also take official attendance on any game with a pinch of salt if I were you, most clubs don't allow for non-attendances of season ticket holders etc when declaring the attendance numbers!

[BigChaCha]

by Holtyclaret » Wed Jan 29, 2025 12:08 pm

The only stats that actually mean anything are points total and goal difference, the rest were concocted to aid those addicted to gambling

Both of which for us this season are excellent, particularly in context of our recent history.

So the only two stats that don't look too bad on paper and are slightly positive then? You are not related to Keir Starmer are you?... he would be very proud of your massaging of the figures

[claretonthecoast1882]

This is what I mean by people stating silly extremes to fit a narrative... We struggle to score one goal at home, never mind five and who has mentioned sacking Parker, not me and nobody else in the comments as far as I can see... Again, these silly childish extremes...

Of course, Monday was always going to our biggest attendance, with season tickets sold before watching the dull football on offer at home this season and with Leeds having the biggest away following so far and with Leeds fans in the home end...

It is not rocket science is it and has absolutely nothing to do with the style of play so far this season, which takes time to filter through to the attendances... I would also take official attendance on any game with a pinch of salt if I were you, most clubs don't allow for non-attendances of season ticket holders etc when declaring the attendance numbers!

Ok well you seem to have all the answers and excuses, how many are you expecting not to renew.

You do realise though that a season ticket holder who doesn't attend that is counted in the crowd has bought a ticket don't you ?

Seen as you seem to have decided to be a spokesman for others look forward to you telling me how many won't renew due to the football or manager.

[BigChaCha]

by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 2:29 pm

Seen as you seem to have decided to be a spokesman for others look forward to you telling me how many won't renew due to the football or manager.

I promise I will deliver them to you as soon as we get a game that includes 10 goals just like you alluded to in your scientific data analysis

[Enola Gay]

I’d just like to thank everyone telling me this is a results business and not en entertainment one, you’ve just saved me a lot of money in future.

Shame you couldn’t have shared that pearl of wisdom before I renewed for next season but it’s certainly been filed away for future reference. Avoid those wet, cold, turgid afternoons watching us go any direction but forward. Just watch the games on Final Score or Sky Soccer Saturday. Cheer when we score or win, boo loudly at the screen when we concede or lose. Maybe take the odd photo or screenshot of particularly good results and save glowing match reports to read on the holiday I put my season ticket money towards instead of getting hung-up on this ‘entertainment’ nonsense.

Facetious maybe but it’s not as daft as the idea that the result is the be-all and end-all.

[burnley007]

I’d just like to thank everyone telling me this is a results business and not en entertainment one, you’ve just saved me a lot of money in future.

Shame you couldn’t have shared that pearl of wisdom before I renewed for next season but it’s certainly been filed away for future reference. Avoid those wet, cold, turgid afternoons watching us go any direction but forward. Just watch the games on Final Score or Sky Soccer Saturday. Cheer when we score or win, boo loudly at the screen when we concede or lose. Maybe take the odd photo or screenshot of particularly good results and save glowing match reports to read on the holiday I put my season ticket money towards instead of getting hung-up on this ‘entertainment’ nonsense.

Facetious maybe but it’s not as daft as the idea that the result is the be-all and end-all.

Love this notion.
If it is purely all about the end result, what is the point of watching the journey?

[Colburn_Claret]

It’s not an entertainment business, it’s professional sport, which is essentially, a winning business. We go to watch and support our team do well. If you want guaranteed entertainment, go to the cinema.

If we try to win and fail it's life.
When we don't try to win, I have a problem.

If others aren't bothered , so be it, but I want to be entertained. I have found this season tortuous to witness.
I'm pragmatic enough to realise SP had a team to build, and that team has to be built from the back, but the defence is solid. He should have moved onto scoring goals many weeks ago, only I don't think he knows how to.

I've said many times the system we play is the reason we have this incredible number of clean sheets, but it's also the reason we don't score enough goals. When our wingers and strikers are expected to defend on the edge of our box, who is the outlet when we recover the ball? When they have to sprint up and down the pitch for 90mins, where do they store the energy for the 4yd sprints needed to get on the end of crosses, or pick up 2nd balls.
We are scuppering ourselves. We need to leave 2 men on the halfway line, our backline don't need this over protection.

[Hipper]

Let's see if the board agree with that when alcohol, food, corporate, walk-ons, ticket sales and season ticket take-ups decline over the next year or so!

One of the main reasons they potted a previous manager was because they could see declining crowds when we were in the Premier League in my opinion and if anyone thinks that winning is the only reason for fans to stay loyally, especially younger fans, then they are incredibly naive and are taking support for granted.

The number of times I have heard fans I know say that they would rather spend their hard-earned money going for a meal or similar rather than watching us seems to be growing too. Many blokes would rather go out with their wife than watch Burnley lol, that's how bad it has got.

I know loads who are opting out at the moment, including my 18-year-old son and all his mates and he has been a fan for 10 years! There is zero chance that we keep our fan base playing this type of football at home, let alone expand it and the board isn't stupid, they will know that.

Younger fans today have so many more options and it is far harder to gain their loyalty, they don't have that tribalism, support-at-all-costs mentality that the older generation has... Fans in general are getting older and over 40% of people between 13 and 23 are saying that they're not interested in sport at all, it's a ticking timebomb!

I presume your second paragraph refers to Dyche (that's the only manger this Board has 'potted'). My guess is the reason was we were heading for relegation.

Average home attendances:

2022-23 - 19,953

2024-25 - 19,892

(2023-24 - 21,153)

There is little difference between the VK and SP seasons - so far anyway.

Season ticket cancellations may give the Board a better idea.

The Board's motivation is money. They are investors. I've no idea how much they value, financially, attendances and associated income, and the rest of the club income - TV, player sales etc.. My guess is they are more concerned about promotion then fancy football. That may be where the money is as long as they don't spend it all trying to stay there.

[bfcmik]

The salaries of footballers is obscene, and that cost is passed on to supporters, many of whom simply can't afford it

At PL and top of the Championship level fan contributions to the club are insignificant. It is the TV rights money and sponsor income that pay for those obscene salaries, Burnley's annual income from gate money, catering and merchandising totals about 10% of the clubs revenues for this season and way less than 5% when we are in the PL.

[vinrogue]

One of my favourite Burnley games was away at Ipswich many years ago, I cant remember who was sent off for us but we played for 60 or 70 minutes with 10 men, we parked the bus, put the ball in row z at every opportunity and got a really good point. On Monday night against the leading scorers in this league we challenged them to a game of chess and they didn't score. We took 4 points off Leeds, they didn't score against us in 180 minutes. Our strike force that SP has available isn't that great at the moment(lol), we are punching way above and I am happy to say my ST renewal was nailed on this year. I am not a happy clapper but if you had told me at the start of the season CJ and Esteve would be part of an amazing defence I may have questioned your sanity so what do I know. UTC

[aggi]

I presume your second paragraph refers to Dyche (that's the only manger this Board has 'potted'). My guess is the reason was we were heading for relegation.

Average home attendances:

2022-23 - 19,953

2024-25 - 19,892

(2023-24 - 21,153)

There is little difference between the VK and SP seasons - so far anyway.

Season ticket cancellations may give the Board a better idea.

The Board's motivation is money. They are investors. I've no idea how much they value, financially, attendances and associated income, and the rest of the club income - TV, player sales etc.. My guess is they are more concerned about promotion then fancy football. That may be where the money is as long as they don't spend it all trying to stay there.

Obviously the board will be able to see physical attendance, just looking at tickets sold isn't the best indicator.

But this season it would be very difficult to unpack the perceived entertainment level of the football from the impact of the new TV deal.

[ClaretPete001]

I’d just like to thank everyone telling me this is a results business and not en entertainment one, you’ve just saved me a lot of money in future.

Shame you couldn’t have shared that pearl of wisdom before I renewed for next season but it’s certainly been filed away for future reference. Avoid those wet, cold, turgid afternoons watching us go any direction but forward. Just watch the games on Final Score or Sky Soccer Saturday. Cheer when we score or win, boo loudly at the screen when we concede or lose. Maybe take the odd photo or screenshot of particularly good results and save glowing match reports to read on the holiday I put my season ticket money towards instead of getting hung-up on this ‘entertainment’ nonsense.

Facetious maybe but it’s not as daft as the idea that the result is the be-all and end-all.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it isn't boring rather that it's possible to see why it is boring and the progress that has been made. We did win 5-0 last week but you are right in the sense that eventually we will start to sound like Fulham and Bournemouth fans if SP can't find a way to control the game higher up the pitch and create more situations around the box.

I think as a fan of a club you can't just demand entertainment regardless of the consequences because equally as we found out last year being open and entertaining isn't great if you are losing every week.

[gandhisflipflop]

I went on the Accy game last night. I’ve been fairly critical of some of our home performances this season, but let me tell you, we look like prime Brazil compared to League 2 football.

I watched that game. Commentator said it was better than our 0-0 the previous night! How many was on? It looked to be empty

[willsclarets]

At PL and top of the Championship level fan contributions to the club are insignificant. It is the TV rights money and sponsor income that pay for those obscene salaries, Burnley's annual income from gate money, catering and merchandising totals about 10% of the clubs revenues for this season and way less than 5% when we are in the PL.

I take your point gates aren't nearly as important as TV money. Supply and demand. Man United will still fill their stands twice over even though they've just increased ticket prices significantly in a bid to comply with FFP. And they pay Marcus Rashford 325000 a week. Gates might be a small portion of revenue but it doesn't stop clubs fleecing fans.

And the more important point was, when Man united price more and more real fans out the picture, those left in the ground are on average, less invested in results and more invested in entertainment.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

One of my favourite Burnley games was away at Ipswich many years ago, I cant remember who was sent off for us but we played for 60 or 70 minutes with 10 men, we parked the bus, put the ball in row z at every opportunity and got a really good point. On Monday night against the leading scorers in this league we challenged them to a game of chess and they didn't score. We took 4 points off Leeds, they didn't score against us in 180 minutes. Our strike force that SP has available isn't that great at the moment(lol), we are punching way above and I am happy to say my ST renewal was nailed on this year. I am not a happy clapper but if you had told me at the start of the season CJ and Esteve would be part of an amazing defence I may have questioned your sanity so what do I know. UTC

A sensible post that won't get a response ( apart from mine ) because of all the bile and vitriol spouted on here

[dsr]

I watched that game. Commentator said it was better than our 0-0 the previous night! How many was on? It looked to be empty

1,600 or so. I was there, and thought it was no better than our game.

[Barn4Burn]

Other point - it's not exactly exciting the kids. Both mine have no interest in coming on the turf again after going to watch a handful of boring, laborious games at the start of the season. They saw us get a few spankings last season and now this.

Do you think their exposure to misery from yourself and tge many miserable podcasters have affected their enjoyment at all?

[Quicknick]

A sensible post that won't get a response ( apart from mine ) because of all the bile and vitriol spouted on here

I'll second that.

[Bfc]

If we get promoted and the team keep on track with keeping clean sheets, the press will report on the creation of a new record of least goals conceded and the success it has brought Burnley FC. They will be sharing comparisons with teams all over Europe. It gives them something different to write about, instead of how boring they say we were most of the season. The supporters will be able to proudly tell of watching Burnley in the season the broke the least goals conceded record.

What frustrates me, re our Boring description, is the eagerness of players to not keep ball possession a little longer. Then take an opportunity to move upfield and look to pass the ball forward, rather than standing still before squaring it across the back. A number of times the ball ends up being passed back to Trafford, who boots the ball upfield, because opponents have closed him and the defenders down. Both the Leeds and Sunderland teams had fast players who went forward at speed and could take on defenders. Those 0-0 games were results I’d accept, as we stopped them scoring, which few teams have done and it kept us in promotion contention.
The other 0-0 games against lower and mid table teams, we lost an opportunity of pressing higher up the pitch and winning the games. Vital points lost, which could be pivotal at the end of season. Given the upcoming run of fixtures against similar teams, we now have chance to attack and create more goal chances. Hopefully still keeping clean sheets, getting points and putting us in the automatic promotion spot.

[Ptgclaret]

This quote is far too typical of this site unfortunately, and a perfect example of why many other burnley fans don't bother posting into this page.

I offer an insight into a topic being discussed, and some clown turns it into a personal attack.

[Ptgclaret]

Do you think their exposure to misery from yourself and tge many miserable podcasters have affected their enjoyment at all

This quote is far too typical of this site unfortunately, and a perfect example of why many other burnley fans don't bother posting into this page.

I offer an insight into a topic being discussed, and some clown turns it into a personal attack.

The assumption that my 6 year old would ever listen to a podcast or that I would sit on the turf grumbling shows you have no idea what your talking about at all.

[Hipper]

If it was purely a results business then the players would be paid on results. They’re not. The justification for their salaries has always come from comparisons to performers in entertainment industries who entertain similar numbers.

Managers are in a results business - which is why their salaries are smaller and more prone to sudden endings

Actually, don't players get win bonuses, promotion bonuses etc.?

The justification for player salaries is the market place for footballers and of course this is skewed by people (like me I admit) who are willing to pay to watch football on television.

[kentonclaret]

I don't think anyone is suggesting it isn't boring rather that it's possible to see why it is boring and the progress that has been made. We did win 5-0 last week but you are right in the sense that eventually we will start to sound like Fulham and Bournemouth fans if SP can't find a way to control the game higher up the pitch and create more situations around the box.

I think as a fan of a club you can't just demand entertainment regardless of the consequences because equally as we found out last year being open and entertaining isn't great if you are losing every week.

I fail to see what Bournemouth fans have to complain about to be honest. In the Championship season under Parker they finished in an automatic promotion place as the second highest scoring team in the division allied to the best defensive record.
Parker managed Bournemouth for less than a handful of games in the PL so that short spell has no bearing on getting out of this league.

[bfcmik]

Leeds didn't exactly come to try too hard at getting the win either. Solomon played as a sweeper all evening and they rarely committed players forward either. They did look a bit more attacking but that wasn't the Leeds freestyle attack they have used all season.