Muric to Ipswich

[Rileybobs]

Scott Arfield is Moneyball. George Boyd is Moneyball. Even Tom Heaton is Moneyball. Signing players to sell for a profit is....Football.

100%. Buying unfancied players at a good value who’s individual contributions combine to make the team greater than the sum of it’s parts. The total opposite to what we’ve done over the past few seasons.

[distortiondave]

Other way round, fridgeman

No, druid event man, it's not. Moneyball is about getting value out of no or low value players that exceeds their perceived worth.
Tom Heaton - free transfer from a relegated 2nd tier club - played for England, sold for £8m.
Scott Arfield - free transfer in, left on a free, but contributed to promotions and survival.

A club like us paying millions for a goalkeeper and then selling that goalkeeper for millions doesn't qualify as moneyball. It's decent business, but it's not moneyball.

[claretskeith]

As mentioned, Moneyball is about value, not just cost. What the player has contributed. It's not about the £ profit.

[equinox]

100%. Buying unfancied players at a good value who’s individual contributions combine to make the team greater than the sum of it’s parts. The total opposite to what we’ve done over the past few seasons.

Hmmm, Garlicks initial intentions when he invested weren't really to make money, how could they have been?

I'd say signing discarded players on free transfers to get numbers in was: 'Old school Football wheeling and dealing".

I'd say signing sh1t loads of young, foreign 'hopefuls' with a view to selling them on for a profit was trying to play 'Moneyball'

Maybe my interpretation is wrong?

[equinox]

No, druid event man, it's not. Moneyball is about getting value out of no or low value players that exceeds their perceived worth.
Tom Heaton - free transfer from a relegated 2nd tier club - played for England, sold for £8m.
Scott Arfield - free transfer in, left on a free, but contributed to promotions and survival.

A club like us paying millions for a goalkeeper and then selling that goalkeeper for millions doesn't qualify as moneyball. It's decent business, but it's not moneyball.

But that isn't the definition, that's your opinion

[TheFamilyCat]

If that figure is true then it's a joke, I thought these owners were skilled business men

Maybe something like this happened:

ITFC: We want Muric
BFC: OK, £15m
ITFC: We'll give you £10m
BFC see who else is interested
BFC: Thanks

[TheFamilyCat]

If that figure is true then it's a joke, I thought these owners were skilled business men

Maybe something like this happened:

ITFC: We want Muric
BFC: OK, £15m
ITFC: We'll give you £10m
BFC see who else is interested
BFC: Thanks

[TheFamilyCat]

If that figure is true then it's a joke, I thought these owners were skilled business men

Maybe something like this happened:

ITFC: We want Muric
BFC: OK, £15m
ITFC: We'll give you £10m
BFC see who else is interested
BFC: Thanks

[TheFamilyCat]

I'm not sure how I managed to post that three times.

[roperclaret]

Hmmm, Garlicks initial intentions when he invested weren't really to make money, how could they have been?

I'd say signing discarded players on free transfers to get numbers in was: 'Old school Football wheeling and dealing".

I'd say signing sh1t loads of young, foreign 'hopefuls' with a view to selling them on for a profit was trying to play 'Moneyball'

Maybe my interpretation is wrong?

It is, you should research Moneyball

[Elizabeth]

It might be a good idea for one or two to watch the film 'Moneyball'

[equinox]

No, druid event man, it's not. Moneyball is about getting value out of no or low value players that exceeds their perceived worth.
Tom Heaton - free transfer from a relegated 2nd tier club - played for England, sold for £8m.
Scott Arfield - free transfer in, left on a free, but contributed to promotions and survival.

A club like us paying millions for a goalkeeper and then selling that goalkeeper for millions doesn't qualify as moneyball. It's decent business, but it's not moneyball.

I've just Googled 'Moneyball' and you're interpretation is correct, what a stupid term.

Anyway as you were.

[equinox]

...but

[helmclaret]

Such a shame a huge talent is walking away for not a lot of money.

I’d be incredibly nervous starting with Trafford in goal next season.

[claretskeith]

I'd say signing sh1t loads of young, foreign 'hopefuls' with a view to selling them on for a profit was trying to play 'Moneyball'

Maybe my interpretation is wrong?

It's not about the profit. It's signing players who you see as being undervalued and are sold (which you buy) lower than you actually value them at.

[equinox]

It's not about the profit. It's signing players who you see as being undervalued and are sold (which you buy) lower than you actually value them at.

Yes, yes it's quite obvious I haven't seen the film and interpreted the stupid term like a normal human being.

[claretskeith]

Yes, yes it's quite obvious I haven't seen the film and interpreted the stupid term like a normal human being.

I've never seen the film either

[warksclaret]

Any more than £10m is a very fair deal for Muric. Pope only went for £10m and he was proven, at the top of his career and at the time England's No 2.If we could create a GK from the very best parts of Pope & Muric then we could expect to get £15m plus. If I was an Ipswich fan tonight who had followed the PL last season, having seen those two huge blunders of Muric, then I might feel uneasy about my club going for Muric at the reported fee .

[equinox]

Stupid term, makes more sense the way I saw it.

[NL Claret]

I’d be incredibly nervous starting with Trafford in goal next season.

Why?

Rumour has it PL clubs are offering much more for Trafford than Muric is going for. Trafford would have been better having a season in the championship rather than the PL which he was not ready for, especially with a poor defence and midfield in front of him and a manager who’s tactics and management were not PL standard.

I doubt Trafford will be here for the start of the season.

[Swizzlestick]

If it’s £10m rising to £15m that’s a decent deal all round especially if he wants to leave. As usual with Muric, some overrate him massively while others compensate by overly criticising. I thought he was great for us - we looked a better team when he came back in - and I enjoyed what he brought to our style, but he obviously has a huge rick in him and it wasn’t good for the old ticker on occasion. From what I’ve seen of Ipswich, he should fit in well with their style there. They won’t be bored at least.

[KRBFC]

But you thought Trafford was good value??

I don’t think there’s a hope Trafford ends up at tripe like Ipswich for 8-10m. He will end up at a bigger club for £20m+

That means we will turn profit given we paid £14m for Trafford so in that sense, yes a good business deal.

Do I think either of them are good enough for the PL? No but I think Trafford might be one day, Muric doesn’t have it in him, a mental thing.

[KRBFC]

But you thought Trafford was good value??

I don’t think there’s a hope Trafford ends up at tripe like Ipswich for 8-10m. He will end up at a bigger club for £20m+

That means we will turn profit given we paid £14m for Trafford so in that sense, yes a good business deal.

Do I think either of them are good enough for the PL? No but I think Trafford might be one day, Muric doesn’t have it in him, a mental thing.

[KRBFC]

But you thought Trafford was good value??

I don’t think there’s a hope Trafford ends up at a club like Ipswich for 8-10m. He will end up at a bigger club for £20m+

That means we will turn profit given we paid £14m for Trafford so in that sense, yes a good business deal.

Do I think either of them are good enough for the PL? No but I think Trafford might be one day, Muric doesn’t have it in him, a mental thing.

[warksclaret]

Do we know what we paid for him, and Man City's percentage of the profit we make

[equinox]

I don’t think there’s a hope Trafford ends up at a club like Ipswich for 8-10m. He will end up at a bigger club for £20m+

That means we will turn profit given we paid £14m for Trafford so in that sense, yes a good business deal.

Do I think either of them are good enough for the PL? No but I think Trafford might be one day, Muric doesn’t have it in him, a mental thing.

Moneyball, oooppps

[CrosspoolClarets]

Gutted, having just heard, but the reality is that Muric is fantastically talented but is an acquired taste, and I doubt Parker is to that taste, Trafford would be much more his cup of tea, who I hope we keep as number 1.

Muric is also, how do we put this politely, not all there. There were rumoured disciplinary things at the tail end of the promotion season (the nightclub). He has a fairly odd, sullen, demeanour. He seems moody and prone to outbursts, and this alleged training issue and insistence on leaving does not surprise me,

When a manager goes, he is never the only one. We accept it, and move on. Good luck to Muric though for the experiences he gave us.

[boatshed bill]

Frankly i'm amazed they'd take a chance on Muric as first choice if they did any amount of analysis on him.

[warksclaret]

Be interesting to see what happens with Trafford-if he stays it could be very beneficial for him in terms of experience, and if he plays well, as I think he will, he will stay around the England squad. He could be worth a lot more at the end of the coming season than now. I guess it depends on the size of the offers we receive this window and our need for cash

[ksrclaret]

Frankly i'm amazed they'd take a chance on Muric as first choice if they did any amount of analysis on him.

Considering that you posted that you are a "big Muric fan", this is somewhat of a strange comment.

[Swizzlestick]

Frankly i'm amazed they'd take a chance on Muric as first choice if they did any amount of analysis on him.

They’ve clearly done quite a bit of analysis on a £10m investment. He’s a talented keeper with eccentricities. I’m fairly sure Ipswich know what they’re getting and are happy to work with that.

[boatshed bill]

Considering that you posted that you are a "big Muric fan", this is somewhat of a strange comment.

Not really. I really like him. Doesn't mean that I can't see the flaws in both technique and mentality.
I don't know who Ipswich's 1st choice keeper is, and I wonder if £10m suggests that AM has been signed as 2nd choice.

[roperclaret]

Such a shame a huge talent is walking away for not a lot of money.

I’d be incredibly nervous starting with Trafford in goal next season.

I was Muric all the way last year, but Trafford will be absolutely fine in the Champ. In fact probably better than fine (if we still have him)

[Dark Cloud]

Take the cash and get someone just as good, but far cheaper. I'm sure they're out there! I'm a Muric fan, but if he wants out, bearing in mind how he was treated last season, then I can't blame him and despite what others are saying, the money quoted is actually pretty decent tbf.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Not really. I really like him. Doesn't mean that I can't see the flaws in both technique and mentality.
I don't know who Ipswich's 1st choice keeper is, and I wonder if £10m suggests that AM has been signed as 2nd choice.

Any keeper that gets signed for 10m plus, is likely going to be first choice.

Fees for keepers are knowhere near as high as other positions

[ksrclaret]

Not really. I really like him. Doesn't mean that I can't see the flaws in both technique and mentality.
I don't know who Ipswich's 1st choice keeper is, and I wonder if £10m suggests that AM has been signed as 2nd choice.

He's certainly one of a kind he certainly divides opinion, even within the same individual sometimes.

[claretskeith]

Take the cash and get someone just as good, but far cheaper. I'm sure they're out there! I'm a Muric fan, but if he wants out, bearing in mind how he was treated last season, then I can't blame him and despite what others are saying, the money quoted is actually pretty decent tbf.

I don't agree it's decent, I think he's worth much nearer £20-25 million in today's game.

But if he wants to leave, it's a straightforward decision. We sell and it lets Parker bring someone in.

[Dark Cloud]

I don't agree it's decent, I think he's worth much nearer £20-25 million in today's game.

But if he wants to leave, it's a straightforward decision. We sell and it lets Parker bring someone in.

Agreed, but this guy (and remember I'm a Muric fan, especially when it comes to Trafford v Muric,!) let an innocuous back pass roll under his boot into the net! He's not, YET shown why any club in the PL should break the bank to sign him.

[boatshed bill]

Agreed, but this guy (and remember I'm a Muric fan, especially when it comes to Trafford v Muric,!) let an innocuous back pass roll under his boot into the net! He's not, YET shown why any club in the PL should break the bank to sign him.

I think you will find that it was VK's fault

[claretskeith]

Agreed, but this guy (and remember I'm a Muric fan, especially when it comes to Trafford v Muric,!) let an innocuous back pass roll under his boot into the net! He's not, YET shown why any club in the PL should break the bank to sign him.

It's more about what I feel he's worth to us. I'd have loved it if we kept him and and he was our number 1 this season. He's been there, seen it, done it. He literally wore the shirt when we got promoted to the Premier League. For us, he's worth more because he could be the difference between promotion and no promotion.

But it sounds like he wants out. What can you do? If somebody doesn't want to play for you, it can disrupt the rest of the squad so you have to sell.

[boatshed bill]

Any keeper that gets signed for 10m plus, is likely going to be first choice.

Fees for keepers are knowhere near as high as other positions

How much did Ramsdale go for?

[Firthy]

I find it strange that we could be letting all 3 keepers leave. Not sure what's going on here.

[warksclaret]

Take the cash and get someone just as good, but far cheaper. I'm sure they're out there! I'm a Muric fan, but if he wants out, bearing in mind how he was treated last season, then I can't blame him and despite what others are saying, the money quoted is actually pretty decent tbf.

If he wants to go, as seems the case, agree with you that £10m is good money. If Trafford goes too then there are keepers like Sam Johnstone at Palace, now firmly second keeper behind Henderson who was brought in last season. Great experience and very commanding in his area. Played most of his games in the Championship but could step up too if we are promoted

[Jakubclaret]

No problem pal. It's not personal though, there are others who also get a kick out of making things up, but your username is always one I think of after the Tella stuff you posted last summer.

The tella business went into fantasy overdrive based on a big beaming smile from even the reputed credible posters. The wiser cautious posters called it correctly it was a lad enjoying his football nothing more nothing less east lancs or timbuktu he would have still smiled it wasn’t a sign from the stars that the destiny was TM.

[Jakubclaret]

If he wants to go, as seems the case, agree with you that £10m is good money. If Trafford goes too then there are keepers like Sam Johnstone at Palace, now firmly second keeper behind Henderson who was brought in last season. Great experience and very commanding in his area. Played most of his games in the Championship but could step up too if we are promoted

I wouldn’t say he’s firmly behind Johnstone johnstones has been injured he’ll probably reclaim his place back when he’s fit. RH preferred DH & the results nosedived prompting fans anger they was actually looking to flog henderson before Johnstone got injured. Most palace fans probably prefer SJ.

[Darnhill Claret]

I hope we have a good sell on clause, hopefully 20 or 25% as I expect Muric to continue to progress.

[FeedTheArf]

I find it strange that we could be letting all 3 keepers leave. Not sure what's going on here.

Maybe it’s our way of dealing with having no GK coach, just sell them all!

[boatshed bill]

Best of luck to Muric, he's given us some great moments.
But if I had to describe him I'd say he's a great goalkeeper until he needs to be a great goalkeeper.
Maybe time will prove me wrong.

[Conroy92]

My point was more that this approach is nothing like Moneyball, our previous ownership’s transfer model was much more similar to Moneyball.

Not entirely sure I agree with you Riley. I think the aspect of money ball we tried to encapture the most was the spread. Money ball encompassed stats based on players ability's to score, get on first base ect. Not too dissimilar to targeting stats like goals and assists and trying to work out an average over the season saying we need to score x amount and concede X amount.

Personally I think we money balled it with our choices out wide. We took multiple wide men and maximised the squad out with players who maybe only had a spattering of appearances over there careers but maybe brought 2/3 goals and 4/5 or assists a season. I think we probably were well aware players like Benson might, in minutes, play something like only ten games across the season. But his contribution adding a few goals and assists would be enough providing all the squad achieved there anticipated goals and assists targets.

It would also make sense as to why we overloaded the squad so much.

I can see why a lot of people think we operated a money ball system under the last regime. But a large part of money ball is the contribution of the squad as a whole. It's not something we ever maximised under the previous regime which is why we had such a consistent first 11.

Id compare it like this. Under Dyche we looked for the best value but someone who could provide the need to the first team.
We'd sign players that would play for 30-40 games a season and aim to get as high as stats out of them as possible.
Under Kompany we had three players that might play that one position all 10/15 games a season and be happy with a split of a couple of goals and assists from each of them.

[FeedTheArf]

Selling Muric and Trafford for a combined £30m and getting someone like Marek Rodák (who Parker has worked with before) in on a free would be a plus for the balance sheet at least.